name resolution

[Tom H]

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 4:18 AM, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:
> Tom H schreef op 24-11-2017 18:55:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom H schreef op 24-11-2017 9:47:


>>>> Lennart re-implemented Apple's Bonjour as avahi, in the same way
>>>> that MS's smb was re-implemented by others as samba.
>>>
>>>
>>> No one forced anyone to use SMB *or else*.
>>>
>>> I don't think we need to be educated on the word "reimplementation".
>>>
>>> The difference is in the coercion.
>>
>> If there's coercion, it's from Ubuntu not avahi or its developers.
>
> Well actually all distributions made this choice.

Because they're come to the conclusion that it's in their users' interest.


> There is not much alternative at present until someone steps in, or unless
> someone steps in, and comes up with a better solution.
>
> A best-of-both-worlds thing.
>
> A compromise.
>
> Right now it is 100% mDNS and 0% unicast DNS.
>
> That's not a compromise.
>
> So distributions just go with what the developers of the packages want.
>
> Otherwise you have to go against the grain.
>
> Go against the flow.
>
> That is only possible if you have a better solution.
>
> So you can't really blame Ubuntu if the Avahi developers say "It's our way
> or the highway".
>
> I think.
>
> That said, I'm sure those developers are open to suggestions, as evidenced,
> but it just hasn't materialized.
>
> I don't personally think the two systems can't coexist.
>
> I think the attitude that they can't, is what causes the problems.

Coexistence is simple and reasonable: if you want to use the defaults
that Ubuntu and other distributions ship, don't use ".local" as a
private domain name.

In fact, with the new TLDs, private domains might have to disappear.

There was a fedora-devel@ thread two or three years ago about dnssec
where Lennart pointed out that Fritzbox is the most widely-used home
routers and that the admin page is reached by going to "fritz.box".
".box" must be registered by now (I'd guess by "box.com" or
"dropbox.com" but I don't care enough to check) so Fritzbox'll have to
change something in its setup.


> Like I said, the solution outlined....
>
> Is not terribly hard.
>
> 1) accept a max 30cs delay in local uncached requests and accept leakage
> onto the internet towards domain servers

Why should avahi and the distributions implement such nonsense for the
handful of people who are too inflexible to avoid one specific domain
name on their lans?!


> 2) have no delay but accept leakage onto the internet towards domain servers

There's already too much leakage. IANA should probably add ".local" to
the blackhole/prisoner dns servers.


> 3)
>
> check for the existence of a local SOA record in one of the configured
> nameservers and if it exists, let dns queries for .local precede mDNS
> queries for .local

Same answer as (1). What a complex mess for so little benefit.


>> But
>> it's not full coercion. If you want to use ".local" as an internal
>> domain name and you only use Linux and BSD on your lan, you can.
>
> I know. I just didn't know how until Liam told me.
>
> I mean for zeroconf that is pretty hard.

Because changing the default config isn't ZEROconf!


>> Ubuntu's decided that its users benefit from having avahi run by
>> default. You have the choice of disabling it if you don't like or want
>> it, just like you can disable other default daemons and features.
>
> Yes but it's not exaclty zeroconf.
>
> Not "only Linux and BSD" though.
>
> You can say "Windows and Linux".

I have no idea whether Windows uses some form of avahi by default;
there are probably many Windows systems with iTunes installed and
iTunes brings in (or used to bring in) Bonjour unless you unticked its
installation. MS didn't like Bonjour so it created its own, less
powerful LLMNR (on a different multicast port).