12.04.2 LTS, new install, network broken

Tue Jul 9 00:56:50 UTC 2013

On Monday 08 July 2013 20:00:55 Liam Proven did opine:

> Gene, you are as ever being very hostile and confrontational. Why is
> this? People, myself included, are trying to help you, for free, out
> of the goodness of their own hearts, and in every message you are
> grumbling and complaining and bitching.
> 
Please, go back to the genesis of this thread. Generally, my first post on 
a given subject, perhaps a bit light on exact details, is ignored, so at 
some point, a day or so later I'll repost, probably not as polite, or just 
"ping" the original.  That will usually get me a reply, and if its from 
you, its moderately apparent that the original post has not been read at 
all, so there is no context from which the conversation can continue.

So we start from scratch with me trying to explain what the problem is.  
Unforch, while I may or may not be correct, either way the clues that I 
resent seem to be ignored.  

I can see the reason for some of that, I am concentrating on the thread I 
started, but you are trying to keep track of 20+ other threads going on in 
parallel, so the details I have supplied do not appear to enter into any 
suggestions that might be offered.

> This is very unhelpful, impolite and means you will get let and less
> help. You more or less completely put me off years ago.
> 
> On 8 July 2013 17:45, Gene Heskett <gheskett at wdtv.com> wrote:
> > That would not be impossible, Colin, now that I know much of whats
> > needed. In this case, make a subdir on the 10.04.4 drive, mount it
> > from the failed install, and save those files off so they can be sent
> > once rebooted to this drive.
> 
> I am not sure exactly what this refers to but if you have a
> significant volume of data, just more /home into its own partition.
> Then you can share that between multiple installs, Ubuntu, Kubuntu,
> whatever, it doesn't matter.

Here is a perfect example.  Someplace, in a prior response, someone gave a 
list of networking related files they would like to see me submit to the 
bug tracker from the networking failed install.  But you've jumped to 
suggesting how I should handle my /home dir, and there is no connection 
between them that I can make.

> This can even be on another drive altogether. That's how I tend to do
> it. Makes backups much easier too.
> 
> > I have yet another bare drive I can try that on, but since I'm in the
> > middle of making something else work, that will wait for the spare
> > time.
> > 
> > For instance, and I haven't looked to find it other than grub didn't
> > find it, and the files are not in the /boot dir of the 12.04.2
> > install according to the grub screen, but this line:
> > 
> > apt-get install linux-image-3.5.7-xenomai-2.6.2.1
> > 
> > After adding the xenomai repo to /etc/apt/source.list and importing
> > the zultron-keyring, reported a successful install in the terminal
> > window.
> > 
> > But I have no clue at this point, where it installed it.
> 
> Why does it matter?

Because that xenomai patched kernel build is real time enough to be able to 
run linuxcnc.

Likewise, so is the kernel running right now, a 2.6.32-122-rtai patched 
kernel.  Yes, its special, and this install, while it does have other 
kernels I have built available, this is the only one capable of running 
bigger iron using stepper motors to move it.  The timing accuracy of the 
signals it feeds to the motor controllers is very important, and when 
running on an intel D525MW motherboard, can nail a step command to the 
motor controller delivering it through the parport within 7 microseconds of 
when its due, and usually within 2 microseconds and do it 50,000 times a 
second without breaking a sweat.

To put that in perspective, a normal linux kernel, built for nice user 
interactivity on the desktop, cannot reliably do that even at only 1000 
times a second because the time wobble of the standard kernel is greater 
that 1/1000th of a second.

> > Inspecting it now, reading its grub.cfg, I see it is there, but the
> > entry is hidden by putting it in a submenu called "Previous linux
> > versions".
> > 
> > Helpful?, not.
> 
> Yes, very helpful. It massively reduces the clutter on the boot menu.
> A huge list of kernel versions is very intimidating to a beginner.
> 
I suppose it could be, so I won't argue that point extensively.

> If you didn't notice it, it means you have not been reading your boot
> screen fully. It is right there, always the 3rd line if Ubuntu has
> been your default.

On this 10-04.4 LTS install, the boots grub screen shows them all, 6 or 7 
IIRC, all on the same screen.  There is a default number (base 0 format 
IIRC) that one can put in the master grub.cfg which cat set  which is the 
one to use if you let it time out, but I've not made enough notes to 
properly set that to this kernel.  That of course is my fault.

> > Another change just for the sake of change.
> 
> No, a useful, positive feature, but this line is another example of
> your pointless complaining.

I would suggest that to an old hand, it is far less important than it is to 
a beginner.  But we were all beginners once and we learned.  So would the 
new beginner now I'd think.  But now that I can see how it happened, no big 
deal.
> 
> > Is this a kubuntu specialty?
> 
> Moving them onto a submenu been a standard Ubuntu feature for 2 or 3
> years now. All remixes do it.

I haven't installed any of the newer, non-LTS versions because of their 
lack of being able to run the machinery.  So my comparison base is 10-04.4, 
which does not do that, so of course I got 'caught out' by something new 
and shiny.  And the 12-04.2 LTS Ubuntu grub did not do that when I followed 
the exact same recipe, which is why I asked if it was Kubuntu specific.

> I think many other distros do it, too.
> 
> > When done on the ubuntu install that I fixed,
> > but have since blown away by re-installing, grub did not do that, it
> > was in plain sight on the grub screen.
> 
> Then it was a very old version or you didn't get as far as installing
> any additional kernels.

Yes I did, building my own from kernel.org tar-balls, but only to confirm 
that while this kernel runs dangerous moving iron well, its a horrible 
desktop kernel.  But its a bit difficult to have ones cake and eat it too. 
;-)

> > In any event, it brought my work on linuxcnc to a screeching halt.
> 
> More editorialising that does not help your case.

Just stating a fact.

And FWIW now, there is some python stuff in linuxcnc that needs some fonts 
from pango, cairo, or pangocairo according to the error message as it tries 
to start and neither seem to be available from the kubuntu repos.  Doing 
exactly the same thing from a ubuntu 12-04.2 install Just Works(TM).

But thats a new thread, perhaps on a different list. ;-)  And likely 
solvable by adding the correct ubuntu repo(s?) to /etc/apt/sources.list, so 
I doubt if its a show stopper for more than a few hours.

Thanks for reading this far, Liam.  Perhaps we may even understand each 
other eventually.  I hope it will become so.

Cheers, Gene
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