'most users with cable modem can host a site'

Amedee Van Gasse (ubuntu) amedee-ubuntu at amedee.be
Fri Jun 12 19:54:07 UTC 2009

Piper schreef:
> I am not a wannabe mail administrator. I am already an MA when I use the 
> Windows Express Adddress Book to create lists under various names.

I'm sorry that I have to be the person that brings you the bad news
(again!), but you are not a mail administrator in the sense that most
people on this list understand the word administrator. You are "just" a
user. Perhaps a power user, but still a user.

And another thing. A real administrator will use the proper names for
the software that he uses. You don't seem to know what you use now, or
you don't seem to care.

From your mail headers I have learned that your mail client is
"Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138", commonly known as "Outlook
Express". Its addres book component is commonly known as the "Outlook
Express Address Book".
There exists no such thing as "Windows Express" or "Windows Express
Address Book", I took the time to look it up.
It is called either "Windows Address Book" (.wab) OR "Outlook Express
Address Book", but not a mix of the two.

> I only want email SW like Express to handle a few more features and I
> do not think it is unreasonable to request them. I asked on this list
> if existing SW, eg "Evolution" or "Mailman" had these features.

Yes, Evolution and Thunderbird, two very common mail clients on Linux,
have all of the features that Outlook Express has, and a lot more.

NO, Mailman does not have any of the features that Outlook Express has,
because Mailman is *not* an email client. It is not even software that
you normally run as a user. Don't expect a graphical user interface
because Mailman doesn't have one. It is supposed to run silently in the
background as a server application.

> I am not trying to "get away with running a forum". I am not trying to "get 
> away with" anything. I am being completely open and honest about a perfectly 
> reasonable request re email SW.

Before you are trying to get away with anything, you should first make
up your mind about what you want.

> With WEAB I can set up a mail list called ABC with 50 people on it and then 
> administer the ABC list. I can set up a lot of other lists like this and 
> administer them too .... as I do.

What you call a list, is *not* a mailing list. It is a group address
that is actually a "shortcut" to a lot of other addresses. You aren't
administrating anything, you are just adding and removing addresses.

A *real* mailing list is something else. I'm not going to explain it
here, read Wikipedia or google it.

> My ISP has never objected. There is no reason to. There is also no
> reason they would object if I had the enhanced SW I request. Shaw has
> a cap on the amount of "stuff" which is allowed in a mailbox and that
> is all they need.

Of course they have never objected. Your Outlook Express translates the
group address back to all the individual addresses, and sends all the
individual mails to your ISP. They don't see the difference if you do it
manually or automatically, the only difference is the number of mails
per minute, there may be a limit.

> There are a couple of immediate problems with WEAB SW. (1) It does not allow 
> people to sub/unsub via autoresponder or forward postings to all subscribers 
> by autoresponder;

Because it is a mail client that only works on *your* computer.
If you want subscriptions, you need *server* software, not *client*

> (2) It does not allow access to an archive. I downloaded 
> SW called "Mail List King" to see if it would solve these problems and it 
> did not, otherwise I would have purchased it.

Because it is a mail client that only works on *your* computer.
If you want a public archive, you need *server* software, not *client*

> I will add (3) which may be somewhat idiosyncratic on my part, ie I would 
> like to be able to scan in images to the archive or some location on my PC 
> which is accessible to all subscribers 24/7. That is why I posted the thread 
> "SW to create a web site". In effect you have a web site if you can put up 
> text and images available to all 24/7.

(3) has nothing to do with a mailing list.
A simple web server with indexed directories would probably be good
enough in your case.

> This is not an excessive request for email SW features. I posted this 
> material politely to see if there is existing SW which "has what it takes". 
> I did not post it to be subjected to mean spirited if not vicious replies. I 
> do not have time to discuss the particulars of postings meeting these 
> criteria. The people responsible can self-examine and they know the spirit 
> of their remarks. I will say that there are medical psychologists available 
> who charge about as much per hour as computer experts so quid pro quo the 
> psychotherapy might have a happy resolution.

Your comment is off topic.

> The SW features of (1) for example might entail recognizing some subject 
> line commands like "subscribe ABC" or "unsubscribe ABC". or <ABC> as a 
> command to redirect the posting to all subscribers. That is all it takes to 
> address concerns  in (1) above.

Back on topic: mailman can do this. It works by listening to a special
email address that accepts special commands.

> One of our machines here has .NET installed so we could write and compile a 
> C program to respond to these commands.
> How difficult would it then be to link that piece of SW to Ubuntu's emailer?

You don't need .NET.
Install postfix and mailman and it will work.
Follow these instructions to the letter:

> BTW others commented in this thread with respect to the advantages of using 
> a commercial host to handle spam and virus attacks etc. The (3) features do 
> not make one bit of difference to how an ISP goes about its business in this 
> respect or how spam and AV SW operates.

They made those comments because they didn't understand what you wanted
to do. I can't blame them: you are *really* difficult to understand. You
seem to change your story every time.

> If existing commercial hosts were functioning as well as they did a few 
> years ago I would not even be subscribed here to present this problem. I 
> have ZERO wish to be an ISP and compete with Shaw, Telus or Rogers. The idea 
> of it is a marketing absurdity. My time is well occupied otherwise.. I 
> posted earlier the nature of those problems on Yahoo/Geocities with a 
> particular reference to the MIT- list and failure of Yahoo to deal with 
> them.
>  I see no reason to expect that any other commercial server would be any 
> better.

The difference is that a hosted server is *your* server, and you can
configure it like it was your own computer on your desk.

Just imagine that you configure your current desktop pc like you want it
to be. Then you take it with you and drive to a far away data center: a
bunker with a lot of air conditioning and a generator as a backup power
supply. You put your own desktop computer in a rack next to tens and
hundreds of other computers. You plug it in and you turn it on. Then you
drive back home. You can still access your remote computer over the
internet, with another computer that you have at home, or with any other
computer that is connected to the internet.

This is how a hosted server basically works, except that a hosting
company will rent you a preconfigured server with a basic operating
system, so that you don't have to drive all the way to the data center.

> The remedy IMO is to have better email SW carried on your own computer. I 
> presented this problem politely and repectfully.
> I would like to continue discussion in this spirit and in the spirit of 
> providing better "opencourseware". Those unable to communicate this way need 
> help with their mental illness but this is not the place for that help.

Your mental illness is that you do not accept help when it is given to
you. I will repeat the address to the web page that contains a detailed
installation procedure for mailman:


I really don't care if you don't like me. I have helped you to the best
of my abilities. I don't need your gratitude. I do this because others
like you might benefit in the future.


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