Convincing a school district to migrate from OS X to Ubuntu or Edubuntu

Wed Nov 19 12:02:52 UTC 2008

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY <clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com
> wrote:

> David McNally wrote:
> > I know that it is weird to see Macs that often, and in fact, I rarely
> > see them outside of my school.
>
> You lead a sheltered life then. A significant part of the attendees at
> any tech conference I've attended in the last few years were carrying
> Apple's notebooks. Apple has made huge inroads amongst developers and it
> is also doing so amongst younger people. The iPod has introduced a new
> generation to Apple's products. Here is a real conversation overheard by
> one of my brothers on the subway a few months ago between two teenagers:
>
> Teenager 1: Did you know that Apple started making computers? I'm going
> to get a MacBook for my birthday. It's just as slick as an iPod.
>
> Teenager 2: Kewl.
>
> I read a few months ago that 33 cents of every dollar spent on
> back-to-school notebook purchases in the U.S. were spent on Apple
> products and Apple's notebooks constituted 20 per cent of the total unit
> sales. Apple saw double-digit gains in sales over the same time last
> year whereas all the other vendors, who are killing one another to eke
> out a 5% margin compared to Apples 25% or better, were flat. That is a
> pretty impressive achievement for Apple, especially in a down economy.
>
> [snip]
> > Of course, lunch is an important part
> > of the school day all around the world, and would function more properly
> > if it were running on Linux,
>
> I prefer my lunch to be quite still and not running, thank you.
>
> > but it's not the only part (I know that you
> > said that, I'm just agreeing with you). If schools were able to run
> > everything on Linux, everything would work smoother, considering the
> > smoothness that Linux provides.
> >
> > I have, however, noticed that Microsoft and Apple do better at making
> > sure that the computer works rather well than the Linux community.
> [snip]
> > There are similar problems that I've found in Linux. Obviously, I still
> > think that Ubuntu would beat Windows or OS X any day, but it's not
> > perfect, and it never will be. It still has many more advantages than
> > Windows or OS X.
>
> If I were your teacher, you'd be asked to revise and resubmit because
> the inconsistencies in what you wrote are glaring. How is it "obvious"
> that Linux is better if "Microsoft and Apple do better at making sure
> that the computer works rather well than the Linux community"?
>
> > Next, I want to respond to Paige Thompson's and Clifford Ilkay's replies:
> > It seems that Clifford felt that I shouldn't refer to these people as
> > 'rich idiots'. While it is somewhat true, I do see quite a bit of truth
> > in the fact that people will do what you want if you treat them with
> > more respect.
> >
> > On the other hand, Paige pointed out that "that's just exactly the kind
> > of mentality that has held Ubuntu back". I agree with that statement
> > more than Clifford's, although Clifford does have a good point. I think
> > that 'rich idiots' was, indeed, a little harsh, but I think that they
> > should be recommended to switch very strongly.
>
> Just what exactly is this binary choice that you and Paige seem to think
> exists? Are you suggesting that being respectful of the people whom you
> wish to convince of the merits of your arguments, such as they are, is
> mutually exclusive with promoting Linux?
>
> > I'd also like to mention that this school has no difficulty buying
> > software, but, that doesn't mean that it should spend so much money on
> > software when it could be spent on better teachers or newer textbooks or
> > better food or something else productive. I agree with Paige on this one
> > again: moving away from software that a school can't afford (or can, but
> > shouldn't) is always a good idea.
>
> It's only a good idea if someone can make a solid case for it AND you
> can gain the acceptance of the people involved through demonstrable
> benefits.
>
> [snip]
> > No one uses OpenOffice. Instead, we get to use the worst productivity
> > suite ever: MS Office 2008. I wonder how IT didn't figure this one out
> > yet. The teachers who teach computer classes have to re-learn how to use
> > Office because everything's been rearranged because of that stupid
> > ribbon. OpenOffice would be a much better idea, so I'll have to see what
> > I can do.
>
> Spending money on software is not necessarily bad *if* there is a
> demonstrable benefit.
>
> > Clifford has pointed out that he has already gotten students using
> > Linux. This comes as a total shock to me, as I've always gone to school
> > to Macs. I still remember using very old versions of the Macintosh OS
> > (definately pre-OS X) back in kindergarten, and up into the first few
> > years of elementary school.
> >
> > Clifford then pointed out how much work it has taken to move his school
> > to using just a few Linux machines and mostly Windows machines.
>
> No, it's the other way around. By the time we are finished, the majority
> of the machines in the school will be running Linux, not Windows. Like
> most schools, we have more computers being used for teaching than for
> school administration.
>
> > If this
> > will need such dedication from everyone involved, then moving this
> > school, which has been on Macintosh since before I was born, will be
> > more work than most schools. People here are also very stubborn,
> > especially IT.
>
> Their resistance to change is understandable and not necessarily a bad
> thing. You can't and shouldn't discount years of experience and
> infrastructure and claim that Linux is magically going to make
> everything better when you're talking about shades of grey difference
> between OS X and Linux. OS X has some definite advantages over Linux and
> the converse is also true. In other words, it's not a clear, decisive
> win for Linux when competing against OS X. Against Windows, in most
> cases, it's much easier to justify Linux.
>
> > There's no question that Ubuntu would be able to work on these
> > computers. While some of them are old, they're still new enough to run
> > Ubuntu. The school has big metal carts that hold about 30 notebooks
> > (these carts are called 'COWs', short for 'Computers On Wheels'), which
> > are usually filled with rather new notebooks, but only because the
> > notebooks are the first things to fall apart, with keys falling out and
> > plastic casing coming off. Such new notebooks would be able to run
> > Ubuntu quite well. The desktops here are also quite good, though,
> > because the school tries to spend more money on the desktops, knowing
> > that they will die long after a notebook bought at the same time, so
> > those will be able to run Ubuntu quite well, too.
> >
> > Saving money is nice, but changing the way an entire high school uses
> > computers is hard, no matter how much money it saves.
>
> That's because they may not save any money at all if the cost of
> retraining and the loss of productivity during the transition period
> exceeds the cost of software licenses. This is the TCO (Total Cost of
> Ownership) argument, which is an argument that Apple is very experienced
> at making.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis
> 1419-3266 Yonge St.
> Toronto, ON
> Canada  M4N 3P6
>
> <http://dinamis.com>
> +1 416-410-3326
>
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>
> I have followed this thread with interest with no intention of contributing
because while I have a great deal of experience with school food service I
have had minimal exposure to administration, superintendents, business
manager and the like. That being said the decision to change any on going
process in a public school setting rests with administration.
In its early stages when I was endeavoring to get school food service to
implement HACCP "Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point" I experienced an
almost insurmountable  administrative wall. While Food Service Directors saw
and appreciated the extreme importance it was ultimately an administrative
decision hence I had to brave the lions den so to speak. Please take my word
for this I am articulate and was passionate about food safety to a fault.
Plus I have an aggresive in your face persona which did not sit well. In
short I had to change my approach and win over administration and ultimately
it was more cost effective to implement HACCP and they made the switch.
Incidentally I am talking Texas and 1086 districts. Finally your attitude
and your ability to win over administration is the Key
and believe it or not your body language.
I hope this helps somewhat


-- 
Allen Meyers
texas.chef94 at gmail.com
MSN as headbanger
chef11994 at sbcglobal.net
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