Convincing a school district to migrate from OS X to Ubuntu or Edubuntu
Christopher J Combrink
chris at riply.co.za
Wed Nov 19 12:11:48 UTC 2008
Macs are making huge head-way in South Africa.
As you say - they are popular amongst developers and also now,
Engineers. Stable. Powerful. What more do you need? (Personally, I still
love Ubuntu over OSX)
Nothing wrong with a Mac running 8.10 ;)
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 05:02 -0700, Allen Meyers wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY
> <clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com> wrote:
> David McNally wrote:
> > I know that it is weird to see Macs that often, and in fact,
> I rarely
> > see them outside of my school.
>
>
> You lead a sheltered life then. A significant part of the
> attendees at
> any tech conference I've attended in the last few years were
> carrying
> Apple's notebooks. Apple has made huge inroads amongst
> developers and it
> is also doing so amongst younger people. The iPod has
> introduced a new
> generation to Apple's products. Here is a real conversation
> overheard by
> one of my brothers on the subway a few months ago between two
> teenagers:
>
> Teenager 1: Did you know that Apple started making computers?
> I'm going
> to get a MacBook for my birthday. It's just as slick as an
> iPod.
>
> Teenager 2: Kewl.
>
> I read a few months ago that 33 cents of every dollar spent on
> back-to-school notebook purchases in the U.S. were spent on
> Apple
> products and Apple's notebooks constituted 20 per cent of the
> total unit
> sales. Apple saw double-digit gains in sales over the same
> time last
> year whereas all the other vendors, who are killing one
> another to eke
> out a 5% margin compared to Apples 25% or better, were flat.
> That is a
> pretty impressive achievement for Apple, especially in a down
> economy.
>
> [snip]
> > Of course, lunch is an important part
> > of the school day all around the world, and would function
> more properly
> > if it were running on Linux,
>
>
> I prefer my lunch to be quite still and not running, thank
> you.
>
> > but it's not the only part (I know that you
> > said that, I'm just agreeing with you). If schools were able
> to run
> > everything on Linux, everything would work smoother,
> considering the
> > smoothness that Linux provides.
> >
> > I have, however, noticed that Microsoft and Apple do better
> at making
> > sure that the computer works rather well than the Linux
> community.
>
> [snip]
> > There are similar problems that I've found in Linux.
> Obviously, I still
> > think that Ubuntu would beat Windows or OS X any day, but
> it's not
> > perfect, and it never will be. It still has many more
> advantages than
> > Windows or OS X.
>
>
> If I were your teacher, you'd be asked to revise and resubmit
> because
> the inconsistencies in what you wrote are glaring. How is it
> "obvious"
> that Linux is better if "Microsoft and Apple do better at
> making sure
> that the computer works rather well than the Linux community"?
>
> > Next, I want to respond to Paige Thompson's and Clifford
> Ilkay's replies:
> > It seems that Clifford felt that I shouldn't refer to these
> people as
> > 'rich idiots'. While it is somewhat true, I do see quite a
> bit of truth
> > in the fact that people will do what you want if you treat
> them with
> > more respect.
> >
> > On the other hand, Paige pointed out that "that's just
> exactly the kind
> > of mentality that has held Ubuntu back". I agree with that
> statement
> > more than Clifford's, although Clifford does have a good
> point. I think
> > that 'rich idiots' was, indeed, a little harsh, but I think
> that they
> > should be recommended to switch very strongly.
>
>
> Just what exactly is this binary choice that you and Paige
> seem to think
> exists? Are you suggesting that being respectful of the people
> whom you
> wish to convince of the merits of your arguments, such as they
> are, is
> mutually exclusive with promoting Linux?
>
> > I'd also like to mention that this school has no difficulty
> buying
> > software, but, that doesn't mean that it should spend so
> much money on
> > software when it could be spent on better teachers or newer
> textbooks or
> > better food or something else productive. I agree with Paige
> on this one
> > again: moving away from software that a school can't afford
> (or can, but
> > shouldn't) is always a good idea.
>
>
> It's only a good idea if someone can make a solid case for it
> AND you
> can gain the acceptance of the people involved through
> demonstrable
> benefits.
>
> [snip]
> > No one uses OpenOffice. Instead, we get to use the worst
> productivity
> > suite ever: MS Office 2008. I wonder how IT didn't figure
> this one out
> > yet. The teachers who teach computer classes have to
> re-learn how to use
> > Office because everything's been rearranged because of that
> stupid
> > ribbon. OpenOffice would be a much better idea, so I'll have
> to see what
> > I can do.
>
>
> Spending money on software is not necessarily bad *if* there
> is a
> demonstrable benefit.
>
> > Clifford has pointed out that he has already gotten students
> using
> > Linux. This comes as a total shock to me, as I've always
> gone to school
> > to Macs. I still remember using very old versions of the
> Macintosh OS
> > (definately pre-OS X) back in kindergarten, and up into the
> first few
> > years of elementary school.
> >
> > Clifford then pointed out how much work it has taken to move
> his school
> > to using just a few Linux machines and mostly Windows
> machines.
>
>
> No, it's the other way around. By the time we are finished,
> the majority
> of the machines in the school will be running Linux, not
> Windows. Like
> most schools, we have more computers being used for teaching
> than for
> school administration.
>
> > If this
> > will need such dedication from everyone involved, then
> moving this
> > school, which has been on Macintosh since before I was born,
> will be
> > more work than most schools. People here are also very
> stubborn,
> > especially IT.
>
>
> Their resistance to change is understandable and not
> necessarily a bad
> thing. You can't and shouldn't discount years of experience
> and
> infrastructure and claim that Linux is magically going to make
> everything better when you're talking about shades of grey
> difference
> between OS X and Linux. OS X has some definite advantages over
> Linux and
> the converse is also true. In other words, it's not a clear,
> decisive
> win for Linux when competing against OS X. Against Windows, in
> most
> cases, it's much easier to justify Linux.
>
> > There's no question that Ubuntu would be able to work on
> these
> > computers. While some of them are old, they're still new
> enough to run
> > Ubuntu. The school has big metal carts that hold about 30
> notebooks
> > (these carts are called 'COWs', short for 'Computers On
> Wheels'), which
> > are usually filled with rather new notebooks, but only
> because the
> > notebooks are the first things to fall apart, with keys
> falling out and
> > plastic casing coming off. Such new notebooks would be able
> to run
> > Ubuntu quite well. The desktops here are also quite good,
> though,
> > because the school tries to spend more money on the
> desktops, knowing
> > that they will die long after a notebook bought at the same
> time, so
> > those will be able to run Ubuntu quite well, too.
> >
> > Saving money is nice, but changing the way an entire high
> school uses
> > computers is hard, no matter how much money it saves.
>
>
> That's because they may not save any money at all if the cost
> of
> retraining and the loss of productivity during the transition
> period
> exceeds the cost of software licenses. This is the TCO (Total
> Cost of
> Ownership) argument, which is an argument that Apple is very
> experienced
> at making.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis
> 1419-3266 Yonge St.
> Toronto, ON
> Canada M4N 3P6
>
> <http://dinamis.com>
> +1 416-410-3326
>
> --
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>
> I have followed this thread with interest with no intention of
> contributing because while I have a great deal of experience with
> school food service I have had minimal exposure to administration,
> superintendents, business manager and the like. That being said the
> decision to change any on going process in a public school setting
> rests with administration.
> In its early stages when I was endeavoring to get school food service
> to implement HACCP "Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point" I
> experienced an almost insurmountable administrative wall. While Food
> Service Directors saw and appreciated the extreme importance it was
> ultimately an administrative decision hence I had to brave the lions
> den so to speak. Please take my word for this I am articulate and was
> passionate about food safety to a fault. Plus I have an aggresive in
> your face persona which did not sit well. In short I had to change my
> approach and win over administration and ultimately it was more cost
> effective to implement HACCP and they made the switch. Incidentally I
> am talking Texas and 1086 districts. Finally your attitude and your
> ability to win over administration is the Key
> and believe it or not your body language.
> I hope this helps somewhat
>
>
> --
> Allen Meyers
> texas.chef94 at gmail.com
> MSN as headbanger
> chef11994 at sbcglobal.net
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