Ubuntu-us-tx Digest, Vol 8, Issue 12

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

Ah man, i think i posted something contrary to what matthew has suggested as
team leader. That's my bad, I don't want to bash the discussion into the
ground once again. It's already had too much of that.
I don't want to repeat this kind of mistake, I want to make progress. Go
ahead with whatever is being done without regard to what I said earlier, as
long as we can carry on without bickering I don't care.

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 6:00 AM, <ubuntu-us-tx-request at lists.ubuntu.com>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Elizabeth Krumbach)
>   2. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Daniel Stone)
>   3. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Elizabeth Krumbach)
>   4. Re: Voting and meeting subjects (matthew byers)
>   5. Re: Voting and meeting subjects (matthew byers)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:09:49 -0500
> From: Elizabeth Krumbach <lyz at ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel
> To: Daniel Stone <webmaster at catcodesigns.net>
> Cc: ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>        <13ae6a200912220509k1d555ebbv6f277d0b4f26bf75 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Stone
> <webmaster at catcodesigns.net> wrote:
> > Okay so do any of the admins of the Texas channel know this. I only hope
> > that the message gets to the ones who can make any changes or incorporate
> > the bots.
>
> They read this list, so I assume so. As the team mentor I'm not here
> to insist that these things are incorporated, but to let the team know
> that they exist and give the team the opportunity to discuss and use
> them.
>
> > I believe that may be part of the issue /
> >
> > If some of the general information regarding properly leading a team
> > especially logistical information such as this.
> >
> > It may be very helpful if you drop a few links that explain the
> leadership
> > role for productive teams.
>
> There are a bunch of resources on the wiki, you may want to start with:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
>
> A leadership document was discussed at the Ubuntu Developers Summit
> but is not completed, and I don't see that it will help here. In spite
> of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working
> hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get
> things rolling with this team. This team went from barely existing to
> having IRC populated, meetings (both real life and IRC) forums
> created, an active mailing list, and a completely redone wiki page in
> a month.
>
> That's fantastic progress and should be applauded :) Well done
> everyone! This is particularly impressive because it's the holiday
> season and this is the time when most loco teams take a break due to
> busy holiday work and family constraints.
>
> I think what would most benefit this team right now is to stop
> fighting over IRC channels and voting (other Ubuntu teams use IRC,
> post logs, follow up with discussion on forums and mailing lists, and
> have votes in Launchpad as needed, this can work for Texas too :)).
> And for the team to move forward with planning and promoting actual
> events in your areas - you don't need votes for planning events
> anyway, just do them!
>
> --
> Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2
> http://www.princessleia.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:36:47 -0600
> From: Daniel Stone <webmaster at catcodesigns.net>
> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel
> To: Elizabeth Krumbach <lyz at ubuntu.com>, ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <4B30CB6F.9070204 at catcodesigns.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dear Elizabeth Krumbach,
>
> Thank you for your reply.
> > In spite of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been
> working
> > hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get
> > things rolling with this team.
> >
> Sorry that I voice an opinion maybe the way you feel is correct is to
> just accept everything as gospel.
>
> When I see an issue I address it. When I have a question I ask.
> (Obviously this must mean that I complain)
>
> I will watch the progress of the team and lay quiet.
> (Sounds like this is what you want)
>
> I see that when I question status quo or make suggestions I get quite
> a lashing.
>
> On the mailing list I have the most posts in the
> past two months as well as the forums.
>
> Obviously not needed.
> Cordially,
>
>
> Daniel Stone
>
> Elizabeth Krumbach wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Stone
> > <webmaster at catcodesigns.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Okay so do any of the admins of the Texas channel know this. I only hope
> >> that the message gets to the ones who can make any changes or
> incorporate
> >> the bots.
> >>
> >
> > They read this list, so I assume so. As the team mentor I'm not here
> > to insist that these things are incorporated, but to let the team know
> > that they exist and give the team the opportunity to discuss and use
> > them.
> >
> >
> >> I believe that may be part of the issue /
> >>
> >> If some of the general information regarding properly leading a team
> >> especially logistical information such as this.
> >>
> >> It may be very helpful if you drop a few links that explain the
> leadership
> >> role for productive teams.
> >>
> >
> > There are a bunch of resources on the wiki, you may want to start with:
> >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
> >
> > A leadership document was discussed at the Ubuntu Developers Summit
> > but is not completed, and I don't see that it will help here. In spite
> > of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working
> > hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get
> > things rolling with this team. This team went from barely existing to
> > having IRC populated, meetings (both real life and IRC) forums
> > created, an active mailing list, and a completely redone wiki page in
> > a month.
> >
> > That's fantastic progress and should be applauded :) Well done
> > everyone! This is particularly impressive because it's the holiday
> > season and this is the time when most loco teams take a break due to
> > busy holiday work and family constraints.
> >
> > I think what would most benefit this team right now is to stop
> > fighting over IRC channels and voting (other Ubuntu teams use IRC,
> > post logs, follow up with discussion on forums and mailing lists, and
> > have votes in Launchpad as needed, this can work for Texas too :)).
> > And for the team to move forward with planning and promoting actual
> > events in your areas - you don't need votes for planning events
> > anyway, just do them!
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:00:26 -0500
> From: Elizabeth Krumbach <lyz at ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel
> To: Daniel Stone <webmaster at catcodesigns.net>
> Cc: ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>        <13ae6a200912220600v24f3716dk449eb098e1045448 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Daniel Stone
> <webmaster at catcodesigns.net> wrote:
> >> In spite of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been
> working
> >> hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get
> >> things rolling with this team.
> >>
> > Sorry that I voice an opinion maybe the way you feel is correct is to
> > just accept everything as gospel.
>
> You are being unfair, and I think you know this.
>
> > When I see an issue I address it. When I have a question I ask.
> > (Obviously this must mean that I complain)
>
> In spite of how you are reading it, "complain" is not a negative word.
> You have brought up complaints with how this team is run, that's fine,
> everyone is welcome to bring up complaints and discuss possible
> solutions.
>
> > I will watch the progress of the team and lay quiet.
> > (Sounds like this is what you want)
>
> Please stop putting words in my mouth.
>
> > I see that when I question status quo or make suggestions I get quite
> > a lashing.
>
> You questioned the status quo, people gave you very reasonable reasons
> why they don't agree and wish to use the standard tools that other
> teams do. I have seen no one giving you a "lashing" for your ideas,
> all I've seen thus far is a constructive discussion of the merits and
> flaws of ideas proposed. Just because people don't agree with you
> doesn't mean they are "giving you a lashing" - I think the discussion
> was good, but it seems to me that using existing tools is what others
> on the team want.
>
> The only "lashing" I've seen came from you when you responded to
> Brandon's detailed reply to your proposals by calling it "mumbo jumbo"
> - this was disrespectful and unfair. He took the time to write that
> email and has been working to help this team, please try to give the
> other folks on this list the same respect you believe you deserve.
>
> --
> Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2
> http://www.princessleia.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:50:39 -0600
> From: matthew byers <faintstlsaint at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Voting and meeting subjects
> To: Travis Beaty <twbeaty at gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>        <b5792e5b0912221450x34a9f5a6m700dea2e46b0d098 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I agree it is simple. As travis said if he was unable to attend a meeting
> they can simply view logs. So yes Daniel i feel that we should NOT change
> around the entire meeting schedule just to cater one individual when it
> fits
> the majority of the team fine the way it is. So it seems that we have found
> a simple answer to these issues. IRC for meetings and mailing list for
> voting. Now how would voting take place...meaning who would recieve the
> votes meaning 'tally' up the votes. If we continue to bash this into the
> ground it will never end or we can go to wave just to 'test' then use
> dimdim
> to 'test'  then use another means until everyone has a smile on their
> face!!
> :P
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Travis Beaty <twbeaty at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just a few thoughts of mine on all of this.  This topic seems a bit like
> > a mosquito -- no matter how many times you swat at it, and you think you
> > got it, it always flies back in your ear.
> >
> > I also believe that email would be the best way to vote as well.
> > Daniel, yes, you work 80+ hours a week.  I work around 50 hours a week,
> > give or take, but my one personal issue is that I work a night shift.
> > So although I live in Texas, my personal time zone is more convenient to
> > Syndey, Australia.  Now then, it just so happens Brandon accidentally
> > picked a good time to have the IRC meetings for me ... rather late in
> > the evening on a day I don't work.  But lets suppose someone was really
> > out to get me, and they set it for 6:00 pm on a Thursday.  I would never
> > make it.
> >
> > Sucks to be me.
> >
> > There are logs available of these meetings.  I don't expect that
> > everyone will agree to have the meeting in the dead of night just for
> > me.  And that's okay, because I'm not a special snowflake.  As was
> > mentioned (either in email or the IRC channel, I can't recall at the
> > moment), IRC is really an auxiliary means of communication anyway.  A
> > good one, yes, but it is secondary to the mailing list.
> >
> > The mailing list would be a dandy place to have votes and debates.  I'm
> > voicing my opinion at 3:30 in the morning and no one's getting woke up.
> > I fail to see how anyone would get shafted if we open up a debate for a
> > matter to be voted on, and leave discussion open for two weeks.  That
> > should give everyone ample time to get their voice in, bow to their
> > partner, wrestle in the mud, whatever it takes to get all the facts on
> > the table.  When we do vote, it's as simple as replying to a thread,
> > perhaps with a tag like [VOTE] in front of it, with a simple "+1/-1," or
> > "YES/NO."  No need for discussion at that point, just one unambiguous
> > yes or no.  But let's make discussion time a set amount of time, because
> > there is nothing to be gained by talking a topic into the dirt.
> >
> > I really feel like we're trying to over-engineer the hell out of a
> > simple thing.
> >
> > -- Travis (Muffinx)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 23:29 -0600, Brandon Tomlinson wrote:
> > > First off, I haven't said anything in this psudeo thread in quite a
> > > while. (not since my "mumbo jumbo" reply, because honestly I've been
> > > wanting to word any responses in an inoffensive manner; and I didn't
> > > really have the patience to do that/still don't.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Second, sorry that we disagree with you. Deal with it.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think everyone agrees that any sort of voting should not be a quick
> > > event. We all agree that votes should be held over a period. That's
> > > reasonable, and many people have been saying that from that start
> > > (myself included).
> > >
> > >
> > > Done.
> > >
> > >
> > > so then, to do any sort of voting (what exactly do we have to vote on
> > > anymore anyways... other than a voting medium...). To finalize this,
> > > can we all agree that any digital democracy (to avoid sounding like
> > > "mumbo jumbo", that means "voting") be handled over email until we
> > > have a more sophisticated system in place?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-us-tx mailing list
> > Ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx
> >
>
>
>
> --
> God Bless
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:07:19 -0600
> From: matthew byers <faintstlsaint at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Voting and meeting subjects
> To: Brandon Tomlinson <thebwt at gmail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>        <b5792e5b0912221507h20ba0c31hfdf627378c559773 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sounds like a plan to me!!
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Brandon Tomlinson <thebwt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Blargh, just make a convo, post +1 or -1 or 0. Done, everyone can tally
> it
> > up if they want
> >
> > On Dec 22, 2009 4:50 PM, "matthew byers" <faintstlsaint at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree it is simple. As travis said if he was unable to attend a meeting
> > they can simply view logs. So yes Daniel i feel that we should NOT change
> > around the entire meeting schedule just to cater one individual when it
> fits
> > the majority of the team fine the way it is. So it seems that we have
> found
> > a simple answer to these issues. IRC for meetings and mailing list for
> > voting. Now how would voting take place...meaning who would recieve the
> > votes meaning 'tally' up the votes. If we continue to bash this into the
> > ground it will never end or we can go to wave just to 'test' then use
> dimdim
> > to 'test'  then use another means until everyone has a smile on their
> face!!
> > :P
> >
> >  On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Travis Beaty <twbeaty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > Just a few thoughts o...
> > --
> > God Bless
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-us-tx mailing list
> > Ubuntu-us-tx at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> God Bless
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> End of Ubuntu-us-tx Digest, Vol 8, Issue 12
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