Ah man, i think i posted something contrary to what matthew has suggested as team leader. That's my bad, I don't want to bash the discussion into the ground once again. It's already had too much of that. I don't want to repeat this kind of mistake, I want to make progress. Go ahead with whatever is being done without regard to what I said earlier, as long as we can carry on without bickering I don't care. <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 6:00 AM, <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx-request@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Send Ubuntu-us-tx mailing list submissions to <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx-request@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a> You can reach the person managing the list at <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx-owner@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx-owner@lists.ubuntu.com</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-us-tx digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Elizabeth Krumbach) 2. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Daniel Stone) 3. Re: VoteBot in Tx channel (Elizabeth Krumbach) 4. Re: Voting and meeting subjects (matthew byers) 5. Re: Voting and meeting subjects (matthew byers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:09:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth Krumbach <<a href="mailto:lyz@ubuntu.com">lyz@ubuntu.com</a>> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel To: Daniel Stone <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:13ae6a200912220509k1d555ebbv6f277d0b4f26bf75@mail.gmail.com">13ae6a200912220509k1d555ebbv6f277d0b4f26bf75@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Stone <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> wrote: > Okay so do any of the admins of the Texas channel know this. I only hope > that the message gets to the ones who can make any changes or incorporate > the bots. They read this list, so I assume so. As the team mentor I'm not here to insist that these things are incorporated, but to let the team know that they exist and give the team the opportunity to discuss and use them. > I believe that may be part of the issue / > > If some of the general information regarding properly leading a team > especially logistical information such as this. > > It may be very helpful if you drop a few links that explain the leadership > role for productive teams. There are a bunch of resources on the wiki, you may want to start with: <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto" target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto</a> A leadership document was discussed at the Ubuntu Developers Summit but is not completed, and I don't see that it will help here. In spite of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get things rolling with this team. This team went from barely existing to having IRC populated, meetings (both real life and IRC) forums created, an active mailing list, and a completely redone wiki page in a month. That's fantastic progress and should be applauded :) Well done everyone! This is particularly impressive because it's the holiday season and this is the time when most loco teams take a break due to busy holiday work and family constraints. I think what would most benefit this team right now is to stop fighting over IRC channels and voting (other Ubuntu teams use IRC, post logs, follow up with discussion on forums and mailing lists, and have votes in Launchpad as needed, this can work for Texas too :)). And for the team to move forward with planning and promoting actual events in your areas - you don't need votes for planning events anyway, just do them! -- Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2 <a href="http://www.princessleia.com" target="_blank">http://www.princessleia.com</a> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:36:47 -0600 From: Daniel Stone <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel To: Elizabeth Krumbach <<a href="mailto:lyz@ubuntu.com">lyz@ubuntu.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4B30CB6F.9070204@catcodesigns.net">4B30CB6F.9070204@catcodesigns.net</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Elizabeth Krumbach, Thank you for your reply. > In spite of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working > hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get > things rolling with this team. > Sorry that I voice an opinion maybe the way you feel is correct is to just accept everything as gospel. When I see an issue I address it. When I have a question I ask. (Obviously this must mean that I complain) I will watch the progress of the team and lay quiet. (Sounds like this is what you want) I see that when I question status quo or make suggestions I get quite a lashing. On the mailing list I have the most posts in the past two months as well as the forums. Obviously not needed. Cordially, Daniel Stone Elizabeth Krumbach wrote: > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Daniel Stone > <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> wrote: > >> Okay so do any of the admins of the Texas channel know this. I only hope >> that the message gets to the ones who can make any changes or incorporate >> the bots. >> > > They read this list, so I assume so. As the team mentor I'm not here > to insist that these things are incorporated, but to let the team know > that they exist and give the team the opportunity to discuss and use > them. > > >> I believe that may be part of the issue / >> >> If some of the general information regarding properly leading a team >> especially logistical information such as this. >> >> It may be very helpful if you drop a few links that explain the leadership >> role for productive teams. >> > > There are a bunch of resources on the wiki, you may want to start with: > > <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto" target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto</a> > > A leadership document was discussed at the Ubuntu Developers Summit > but is not completed, and I don't see that it will help here. In spite > of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working > hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get > things rolling with this team. This team went from barely existing to > having IRC populated, meetings (both real life and IRC) forums > created, an active mailing list, and a completely redone wiki page in > a month. > > That's fantastic progress and should be applauded :) Well done > everyone! This is particularly impressive because it's the holiday > season and this is the time when most loco teams take a break due to > busy holiday work and family constraints. > > I think what would most benefit this team right now is to stop > fighting over IRC channels and voting (other Ubuntu teams use IRC, > post logs, follow up with discussion on forums and mailing lists, and > have votes in Launchpad as needed, this can work for Texas too :)). > And for the team to move forward with planning and promoting actual > events in your areas - you don't need votes for planning events > anyway, just do them! > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:00:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth Krumbach <<a href="mailto:lyz@ubuntu.com">lyz@ubuntu.com</a>> Subject: Re: VoteBot in Tx channel To: Daniel Stone <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:13ae6a200912220600v24f3716dk449eb098e1045448@mail.gmail.com">13ae6a200912220600v24f3716dk449eb098e1045448@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Daniel Stone <<a href="mailto:webmaster@catcodesigns.net">webmaster@catcodesigns.net</a>> wrote: >> In spite of your complaints, Daniel, the leaders on the team have been working >> hard to satisfy your concerns, get resources under control and get >> things rolling with this team. >> > Sorry that I voice an opinion maybe the way you feel is correct is to > just accept everything as gospel. You are being unfair, and I think you know this. > When I see an issue I address it. When I have a question I ask. > (Obviously this must mean that I complain) In spite of how you are reading it, "complain" is not a negative word. You have brought up complaints with how this team is run, that's fine, everyone is welcome to bring up complaints and discuss possible solutions. > I will watch the progress of the team and lay quiet. > (Sounds like this is what you want) Please stop putting words in my mouth. > I see that when I question status quo or make suggestions I get quite > a lashing. You questioned the status quo, people gave you very reasonable reasons why they don't agree and wish to use the standard tools that other teams do. I have seen no one giving you a "lashing" for your ideas, all I've seen thus far is a constructive discussion of the merits and flaws of ideas proposed. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are "giving you a lashing" - I think the discussion was good, but it seems to me that using existing tools is what others on the team want. The only "lashing" I've seen came from you when you responded to Brandon's detailed reply to your proposals by calling it "mumbo jumbo" - this was disrespectful and unfair. He took the time to write that email and has been working to help this team, please try to give the other folks on this list the same respect you believe you deserve. -- Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2 <a href="http://www.princessleia.com" target="_blank">http://www.princessleia.com</a> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:50:39 -0600 From: matthew byers <<a href="mailto:faintstlsaint@gmail.com">faintstlsaint@gmail.com</a>> Subject: Re: Voting and meeting subjects To: Travis Beaty <<a href="mailto:twbeaty@gmail.com">twbeaty@gmail.com</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:b5792e5b0912221450x34a9f5a6m700dea2e46b0d098@mail.gmail.com">b5792e5b0912221450x34a9f5a6m700dea2e46b0d098@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I agree it is simple. As travis said if he was unable to attend a meeting they can simply view logs. So yes Daniel i feel that we should NOT change around the entire meeting schedule just to cater one individual when it fits the majority of the team fine the way it is. So it seems that we have found a simple answer to these issues. IRC for meetings and mailing list for voting. Now how would voting take place...meaning who would recieve the votes meaning 'tally' up the votes. If we continue to bash this into the ground it will never end or we can go to wave just to 'test' then use dimdim to 'test' then use another means until everyone has a smile on their face!! :P On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Travis Beaty <<a href="mailto:twbeaty@gmail.com">twbeaty@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > Just a few thoughts of mine on all of this. This topic seems a bit like > a mosquito -- no matter how many times you swat at it, and you think you > got it, it always flies back in your ear. > > I also believe that email would be the best way to vote as well. > Daniel, yes, you work 80+ hours a week. I work around 50 hours a week, > give or take, but my one personal issue is that I work a night shift. > So although I live in Texas, my personal time zone is more convenient to > Syndey, Australia. Now then, it just so happens Brandon accidentally > picked a good time to have the IRC meetings for me ... rather late in > the evening on a day I don't work. But lets suppose someone was really > out to get me, and they set it for 6:00 pm on a Thursday. I would never > make it. > > Sucks to be me. > > There are logs available of these meetings. I don't expect that > everyone will agree to have the meeting in the dead of night just for > me. And that's okay, because I'm not a special snowflake. As was > mentioned (either in email or the IRC channel, I can't recall at the > moment), IRC is really an auxiliary means of communication anyway. A > good one, yes, but it is secondary to the mailing list. > > The mailing list would be a dandy place to have votes and debates. I'm > voicing my opinion at 3:30 in the morning and no one's getting woke up. > I fail to see how anyone would get shafted if we open up a debate for a > matter to be voted on, and leave discussion open for two weeks. That > should give everyone ample time to get their voice in, bow to their > partner, wrestle in the mud, whatever it takes to get all the facts on > the table. When we do vote, it's as simple as replying to a thread, > perhaps with a tag like [VOTE] in front of it, with a simple "+1/-1," or > "YES/NO." No need for discussion at that point, just one unambiguous > yes or no. But let's make discussion time a set amount of time, because > there is nothing to be gained by talking a topic into the dirt. > > I really feel like we're trying to over-engineer the hell out of a > simple thing. > > -- Travis (Muffinx) > > > > On Mon, 2009-12-21 at 23:29 -0600, Brandon Tomlinson wrote: > > First off, I haven't said anything in this psudeo thread in quite a > > while. (not since my "mumbo jumbo" reply, because honestly I've been > > wanting to word any responses in an inoffensive manner; and I didn't > > really have the patience to do that/still don't.) > > > > > > Second, sorry that we disagree with you. Deal with it. > > > > > > I think everyone agrees that any sort of voting should not be a quick > > event. We all agree that votes should be held over a period. That's > > reasonable, and many people have been saying that from that start > > (myself included). > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > so then, to do any sort of voting (what exactly do we have to vote on > > anymore anyways... other than a voting medium...). To finalize this, > > can we all agree that any digital democracy (to avoid sounding like > > "mumbo jumbo", that means "voting") be handled over email until we > > have a more sophisticated system in place? > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-us-tx mailing list > <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx</a> > -- God Bless -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-tx/attachments/20091222/c619b156/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-tx/attachments/20091222/c619b156/attachment-0001.htm</a> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:07:19 -0600 From: matthew byers <<a href="mailto:faintstlsaint@gmail.com">faintstlsaint@gmail.com</a>> Subject: Re: Voting and meeting subjects To: Brandon Tomlinson <<a href="mailto:thebwt@gmail.com">thebwt@gmail.com</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:b5792e5b0912221507h20ba0c31hfdf627378c559773@mail.gmail.com">b5792e5b0912221507h20ba0c31hfdf627378c559773@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sounds like a plan to me!! On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Brandon Tomlinson <<a href="mailto:thebwt@gmail.com">thebwt@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > Blargh, just make a convo, post +1 or -1 or 0. Done, everyone can tally it > up if they want > > On Dec 22, 2009 4:50 PM, "matthew byers" <<a href="mailto:faintstlsaint@gmail.com">faintstlsaint@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > > I agree it is simple. As travis said if he was unable to attend a meeting > they can simply view logs. So yes Daniel i feel that we should NOT change > around the entire meeting schedule just to cater one individual when it fits > the majority of the team fine the way it is. So it seems that we have found > a simple answer to these issues. IRC for meetings and mailing list for > voting. Now how would voting take place...meaning who would recieve the > votes meaning 'tally' up the votes. If we continue to bash this into the > ground it will never end or we can go to wave just to 'test' then use dimdim > to 'test' then use another means until everyone has a smile on their face!! > :P > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Travis Beaty <<a href="mailto:twbeaty@gmail.com">twbeaty@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > > > Just a few thoughts o... > -- > God Bless > > -- > Ubuntu-us-tx mailing list > <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-us-tx@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-tx</a> > > -- God Bless -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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