[Ubuntu-US-CA] Ubuntu-us-ca Digest, Vol 34, Issue 4
kdemarest
kdemarest at gmail.com
Wed Mar 10 00:16:27 UTC 2010
I gotta' agree with DW. -1.
Kevin
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 11:24 AM, <ubuntu-us-ca-request at lists.ubuntu.com>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Leadership Appointment Process (Alan Ostlund)
> 2. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (Larry Cafiero)
> 3. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~)
> 4. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (Akkana Peck)
> 5. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~)
> 6. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (Mark Garrow)
> 7. Re: Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment Process
> (Jack Deslippe)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:30:40 -0800
> From: Alan Ostlund <mjolnar at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Leadership Appointment Process
> To: ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <1268148640.11713.3.camel at alan-desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I vote +1, but only because if we don't do something about the issue, it
> will get out of hand. Neal has done a great job so far, but new blood
> is usually a good thing. At least we have more than one person willing
> to do the job. In a lot of cases, you will find no one willing to
> devote the time this job will require.
>
> Alan Ostlund
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:35:36 -0800
> From: Larry Cafiero <larry.cafiero at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> <7a0d56081003090735y6c7c4ea4lae2c79bb501f7b0a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It seem that this particular situation requires a leadership process, and
> the one proposed is sound.
>
> +1
>
> Larry Cafiero
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon <jono at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little
> > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the
> > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would
> > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel
> > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1.
> >
> > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all!
> >
> > Jono
> >
> > --
> > Jono Bacon
> > Ubuntu Community Manager
> > www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
> > www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list
> > Ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 07:58:30 -0800
> From: David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ <ubuntu at darkwingduck.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <4B967026.1090100 at darkwingduck.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little
> > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the
> > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would
> > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel
> > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1.
> >
> > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all!
> >
> > Jono
> >
>
> -1
>
> For my reasons feel free to email me.
>
> DW
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:18:28 -0800
> From: Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <20100309171828.GB1878 at shallowsky.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Jono Bacon writes:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little
> > confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the
> > leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would
> > benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel
> > that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1.
> >
> > Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all!
>
> Now I'm even more confused than I was before. I thought we were
> voting on keeping the current setup for a year, then letting the
> team vote on leadership after that. Now you clarify we're voting on
> whether to have formal leadership at all, ever. That seems very
> different from what you said in the first message.
>
> As a relative newcomer I don't know what all these smouldering
> issues are or even who a lot of the people are (you know, it
> would be really helpful to have a page somewhere that mapped IRC
> nicks to real names, or for folks on IRC in leadership positions
> to set their realnames). So I probably should stay out of the
> vote anyway, but I have to say this process is confusing.
>
> ...Akkana
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:24:42 -0800
> From: David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ <ubuntu at darkwingduck.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <4B96926A.8060708 at darkwingduck.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 03/09/2010 07:58 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ wrote:
> > On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little
> >> confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that the
> >> leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would
> >> benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel
> >> that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1.
> >>
> >> Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all!
> >>
> >> Jono
> >>
> >
> > -1
> >
> > For my reasons feel free to email me.
> >
> > DW
> >
>
> There have been a lot of questions about my vote. I figured that it
> would be more productive to reply with my reasons here.
>
> The issues in the group stem from a leadership style that Neal (Flannel)
> has. The issues have brought up a lot of controversy with the northern
> group. Grant (Grantbow) is one of the people that have brought the
> issues to light. It's a philosophy issue between how those in NorCal
> think and deal with problems vice those in SoCal.
>
> SoCal thinking has a way of saying "Problems will take care of
> themselves." The NorCal thinking is "Deal with the problem ASAP, fix it
> and move on." This is where you can break down the issue. My problem is
> that when/if a change of power takes place the issue of philosophy will
> not change. If someone from NorCal takes over then the issue still
> remains as those from SoCal will stir that we are spending too much time
> focused on the problems and not enough on what a LoCo should do.
>
> This is why I feel this course of action is like a very small band-aid
> to a larger problem. What should be done is a set of bylaws on how to
> deal with issues, leadership and how to conduct business. Changing
> leaders will not solve this issue.
>
> DW
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:10:55 -0800
> From: Mark Garrow <markgarrow at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <4B969D3F.9020506 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> +1
>
> On 3/8/2010 9:23 PM, Jono Bacon wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > To those of you who don't know me, I am Jono Bacon and I am the Ubuntu
> > Community Manager, now residing in the Easy Bay in sunny California. :-)
> >
> > Aside from just being part of the team, I have also been helping to
> > resolve some conflict that has been happening in the team. I have had
> > some calls with Neal and Grant and spoken to many of you to gather your
> > input about the team and this conflict.
> >
> > Today I had a conference call with Neal and Grant and both identified
> > that a key issue is that sometimes unresolved issues are left open and
> > not resolved. Typically in most LoCo teams in these scenarios the leader
> > will help unblock and bring closure to these issues. While Neal is the
> > leader Ubuntu California, there was some uncertaintly in our call as to
> > how formally recognized this is.
> >
> > I made a suggestion in the call, but Grant, Neal and I all agreed that
> > we should not move forward with the suggestion without gathering
> > feedback from the team as to whether it is needed. As such, I would like
> > to ask each of you to provide feedback on the following suggestion -
> > some of you will want to mail me your feedback privately, and some will
> > be happy to reply to the list. Whatever method you choose: please
> > summarize *your* view, and not the view of someone who has asked you to
> > provide feedback one way or the other. The aim of this is for me to get
> > a barometer of opinion for this proposal.
> >
> > This is it:
> >
> > I recommend we have a leadership appoint process that works like
> this:
> >
> > * With Neal already the leader of the team, starting from April
> > 1st 2010 he would start a formally recognized one year term of
> > leadership (he would be grandfathered in).
> > * In March 2011 a leadership appointment process will happen
> > that works like this:
> > o there will be an invitation for people to nominate
> > themselves for leadership. There will be a standard wiki
> > template used for people to produce their case for
> > leadership and others will provide testimonials.
> > o a meeting will be scheduled and nominations will be
> > discussed, there will then be a vote using a voting tool
> > to identify the leader.
> > o if there is a draw or some conflict surrounding the
> > vote, the LoCo Council will evaluate the case and pick a
> > leader.
> >
> > What do you think? Please vote with:
> >
> > * +1 - you agree with the above proposal.
> > * -1 - you disagree with the above proposal.
> >
> > Again, feel free to provide feedback privately to me or publicly on the
> > list.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Jono
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:24:33 -0800
> From: Jack Deslippe <jdeslip at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-US-CA] Asking For Opinion: Leadership Appointment
> Process
> To: Ubuntu US California <ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> <11eb8a5c1003091124p7eec0428q3a7f5496f8a25b5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I generally agree with what DW said (though the characterization of the
> SoCal/NoCal mentality may be a bit simplified...). I have always been of
> the opinion that the issues and personal problems in this group derive from
> a lack of a well-defined and fair structure/by-laws. A couple months back,
> I documented what I thought the root problem was and created a proposed
> structure to address them. I did not submit it to the group in deference
> for the ongoing process between Neal, Grant and Jono; though I thought this
> process mostly hopelessly mired in fixing ill-effects instead of the root
> cause of trouble.
>
> However, I find Jono's email from yesterday to begin to address the root
> cause (the lack of well-defined structure) of our problems. I think his
> proposed leadership model would ensure equality in the group (everyone gets
> to vote) and define a clear path towards leadership for those wishing to
> bring change to the group. The model, coupled with a some simple by-laws
> defining membership, the role of the leader and how decisions are made
> locally and statewide would in my opinion go a long way towards solving the
> structural and personal problems in the group.
>
> Here is the link to my document mentioned above for the record:
>
> http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVvuU9dbI-YnZGhtOWh6cHZfNDNmNzRoaDNkdw&hl=en
> - I hope the forward illustrates why the problems in the group derive
> from
> the lack of structure. I am by no means attached to the particular details
> of the proposal in this document. It is simply an example. I think
> supplementing Jono's proposed leadership structure with some sort of
> by-laws
> would certainly be sufficient - without the need for council member from
> each area.
>
> If it is not clear, this email and the google-document represent my
> opinions
> only and not those of other NoCal members.
>
> -Jack
>
> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:24 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ <
> ubuntu at darkwingduck.org> wrote:
>
> > On 03/09/2010 07:58 AM, David Wondelry ~DarkwingDuck~ wrote:
> > > On 03/09/2010 12:44 AM, Jono Bacon wrote:
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> I just want to clarify my original question as there was a little
> > >> confusion reported to me earlier: I am asking whether you feel that
> the
> > >> leadership process is required at all. If you feel the team would
> > >> benefit from having that process in place, vote with +1, if you feel
> > >> that the team is running just fine without it, vote -1.
> > >>
> > >> Sorry for any confusion. Thanks, all!
> > >>
> > >> Jono
> > >>
> > >
> > > -1
> > >
> > > For my reasons feel free to email me.
> > >
> > > DW
> > >
> >
> > There have been a lot of questions about my vote. I figured that it
> > would be more productive to reply with my reasons here.
> >
> > The issues in the group stem from a leadership style that Neal (Flannel)
> > has. The issues have brought up a lot of controversy with the northern
> > group. Grant (Grantbow) is one of the people that have brought the
> > issues to light. It's a philosophy issue between how those in NorCal
> > think and deal with problems vice those in SoCal.
> >
> > SoCal thinking has a way of saying "Problems will take care of
> > themselves." The NorCal thinking is "Deal with the problem ASAP, fix it
> > and move on." This is where you can break down the issue. My problem is
> > that when/if a change of power takes place the issue of philosophy will
> > not change. If someone from NorCal takes over then the issue still
> > remains as those from SoCal will stir that we are spending too much time
> > focused on the problems and not enough on what a LoCo should do.
> >
> > This is why I feel this course of action is like a very small band-aid
> > to a larger problem. What should be done is a set of bylaws on how to
> > deal with issues, leadership and how to conduct business. Changing
> > leaders will not solve this issue.
> >
> > DW
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-us-ca mailing list
> > Ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
> >
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