Moroccan Arabic guidelines
Tariq Daouda
tariq.daouda at gmail.com
Tue Mar 15 21:06:08 UTC 2011
Thanks to both of you for bringing up the subject. I've just created a
mailing list for the team.
Tariq
2011/3/15 David Planella <david.planella at ubuntu.com>
> El dl 14 de 03 de 2011 a les 17:16 -0400, en/na Tariq Daouda va
> escriure:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just want to clarify some things. First of all even though both
> > languages share similar official names, Moroccan Arabic is so much
> > influenced by it's amazigh substrat that there's absolutely no
> > inter-comprehension possible between a speaker of Moroccan Arabic and
> > a speaker of Arabic. The language has it's own phonology, grammar,
> > conjugation and vocabulary. This fact alone justifies having a
> > translation team. There's no way a Moroccan can understand Arabic
> > without very serious schooling, a dramatic fact if you consider that
> > Morocco has a literacy rate of only 50%.
> >
> > The pan-arabism theory has no place in this discussion. The only way
> > to be apolitic here is to consider the fact that Arabic is de facto
> > the mother tongue of no one in the arab world, but is only a vehicular
> > language used by different people to communicate.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Tariq
> >
>
> Ok, so it seems from both of your replies that all is well so far.
> Thanks Khaled and Tariq for the insights.
>
> Tariq, just one last comment: looking at
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ary the e-mail contact is a gmail
> account. I'd recommend using a public mailing list instead, as it
> fosters better collaboration and transparency. You can create a mailing
> list for your team in Launchpad or use one hosted externally.
>
> Again, feel free to discuss any other issue on the list or contact me
> privately if needed.
>
> Regards,
> David.
>
> >
> > 2011/3/14 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 06:38:19PM +0100, David Planella
> > wrote:
> > > El dl 14 de 03 de 2011 a les 18:58 +0200, en/na Khaled Hosny
> > va
> > > escriure:
> > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 05:37:13PM +0100, David Planella
> > wrote:
> > > > > El dl 14 de 03 de 2011 a les 18:22 +0200, en/na Khaled
> > Hosny va
> > > > > escriure:
> > > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 05:09:08PM +0100, David
> > Planella wrote:
> > > > > > > El dg 13 de 03 de 2011 a les 23:16 -0400, en/na
> > Tariq Daouda va
> > > > > > > escriure:
> > > > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can find our guidelines here :
> > > > > > > > In french : Guidelines : (fr)
> > > > > > > > http://www.ktbdarija.com/index.php?l=fr&p=02-R%C3%
> > A9gles_d%quote%%C3%
> > > > > > > > A9criture.php
> > > > > > > > Moroccan Arabic : (arabic script) :
> > > > > > > >
> > http://www.ktbdarija.com/index.php?l=ary-ar&p=02-Qawanin%20l-k
> > %E1%B9%
> > > > > > > > ABaba.php, (latin script) :
> > > > > > > >
> > http://www.ktbdarija.com/index.php?l=ary&p=02-Qawanin%20l-k%
> > E1%B9%
> > > > > > > > ABaba.php
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tariq
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tariq,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the great work in creating
> > guidelines for your
> > > > > > > translation team.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've now added a link to the ones in Arabic script
> > to
> > > > > > >
> > https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
> > - let me
> > > > > > > know if that looks good to you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a bit confused, we already have Arabic translation
> > team(s), so what
> > > > > > is the Moroccan Arabic thing?
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Khaled,
> > > > >
> > > > > It is a result from this request:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/117801
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is any area in which the teams overlap, I'd
> > suggest you guys to
> > > > > discuss collaboration or a merger between the teams.
> > > >
> > > > There is no much overlap, well there is no such thing as
> > "Moroccan
> > > > Arabic" as a formal language, only standard Arabic is used
> > in writing or
> > > > formal communications (taught in schools, written in
> > books, journals and
> > > > so), so it is pretty odd to have software UI in a
> > colloquial dialect.
> > > >
> > >
> > > When adding new languages to Ubuntu we do a quick check for
> > that, but
> > > please understand that when there is an ISO code available
> > for a
> > > language or variant, and there seems to be a genuine
> > interest from the
> > > requester, it is difficult for someone not directly familiar
> > with the
> > > main language to be able to make a definitive call for
> > non-inclusion.
> >
> >
> > I know about the ISO code, the problem is that ISO 639-2 is
> > full of
> > funny language codes on arbitrary bases (Egypt got 2, but
> > following that
> > logic Egypt should have a dozen on language codes at least).
> >
> > > > I'm afraid it give wrong political message about Ubuntu
> > (like what
> > > > happened with the so called "Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia").
> > > >
> > >
> > > There shouldn't be any political connotation to it if there
> > is
> > > communication, which so far has been very civil. I'd suggest
> > you guys
> > > talk about it off-list and let us know what you want us to
> > do: if the
> > > team should be kept or taken away from the
> > ubuntu-translators group.
> >
> >
> > I'm not saying there should be, I'm only fearing it would
> > happen.
> >
> > I myself would have been pretty angry if this happened few
> > months ago; I
> > would have felt threatened, but now after the Arabic
> > revolution starting
> > in Tunisia and spreading through Egypt all over the Arabic
> > world I feel
> > more confident about the Arabic unity, Arabs showed they are
> > still one
> > community speaking one language and suffering the same pain.
> >
> > So, as far I'm concerned, there is no problem to solve and I
> > wish every
> > one luck with there effort, I'm just worried how Ubuntu's
> > current/potential users will see it (and believe me people are
> > very
> > religious about this issue).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Khaled
> >
> > P.S. Sorry for the politics, but I couldn't resist the
> > opportunity :)
> >
> > --
> > Khaled Hosny
> > Egyptian
> > Arab
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> David Planella
> Ubuntu Translations Coordinator
> www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com
> www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella
>
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