[ubuntu-studio-devel] continued as per request, from IRC

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2015, at 02:45 AM, Mike Holstein wrote:
> 
> this is frustrating. since, i am interested in helping with PR, but, i
> dont
> think its fair to the rest of the community that you dictate who is in
> charge of it. i very much appreciate the offer, and, would like to just
> take the position, but, it wouldnt be fair to those, such as cub, who has
> shown interest in PR as well, and as recent as a few days ago in IRC.
> 

It's not like people are swarming to take positions in Ubuntu Studio
development.
But, if cub is also interested in doing this (which I didn't realize),
sure, lets' ask him.
Would you be interested in taking the lead on PR & Support?
Any others?

I frankly don't care who does it. Just that someone does. That's not
dictating. That's asking you to take initiative.

But, you are right. We should put the question out on all the team
positions for the next cycle. And, I'll do it on the mail list, cause
not everyone will be on IRC, and the process might take weeks, rather
than hours.
You just have to understand, that I am not used to there being more than
2-3 people involved at one time. Last year there was only me from the
Ubuntu Studio team. Not much point with lead elections then. It's not me
being undemocratic. It's me being pragmatic. 

> what i would like to do is define the positions we need, in real time, in
> IRC meetings that we can hold in a similar fashion to that of the other
> ubuntu teams. if you just dictate the position to me, here, in a random
> email, then, when is the position available again? who can run for it
> again? and when? and what are the responsibilities and expectations? even
> if its just you, me, and len in the irc channel constructively discussing
> the terms of the position, i think that would be productive, and
> facilitate
> an open community, where, a person interested in PR could plan to attend
> the meeting, and discuss, etc..

Me and Len are of the same opinion. People should take charge of
different areas and feel free to work independently to a great degree,
so that we don't have to discuss every little detail in between us.
Cause, in the end, it's the work you do that matters. Not talking about
it.

> if you feel im looking at this wrong, i welcome a discussion about it. we
> havent had a team meeting in years, and, i think it would be welcome for
> us

This is a discussion, isn't it?

> to have simply monthly meetings, with a posted agenda, and do them in the
> official meeting channel. im not asking anyone to do any more work. im
> not
> criticizing anyone's work. im not asking to replace anyone's position. im
> asking that the team have an infrastructure that more closely matches the
> other teams. the team has been run, where, the lead position is really
> the
> only position, and there are no parameters for that position, or length
> of
> the term of office, or, expectations for it. all i want is more of a
> democratic situation that closely matches a team like xubuntu.
> 

I already told you, you can set up meetings if you want. But, since you
are among the only people who has shown interest in doing that, you also
need to take some initiative and do the work for it.
Or, someone else can. I don't care.

Why am I not doing it?
A year ago, only one person was developing Ubuntu Studio. That was me.
What point was there in having meetings then?
Most of the time, it's only me and Len. We don't need specific meetings
to discuss stuff. We just get to work, and talk when we need to. We do
that over IRC or the mail list. The mail list is better when you want
more people to be involved.

You want meetings. Who else?
Those of you who want meetings, please take the initiative, and set them
up. I will help with the documentation part, but I won't be setting them
up just cause one person, who does no development anyway, wants to have
them. It's just ridiculous.

> this is really the only "tree im barking at".. i just want a more
> democratic process for the team. i dont want you dictating to the group
> who
> the PR lead is in an email. i dont want to get CAPS and cursed at in the
> IRC channel. i want to be so overwhelmingly open and welcoming that you
> and

Nobody has been cursing at you, holstein. Try to keep it real.

> i, and the rest of the team are having such amazing exchanges, and doing
> such positive development that folks cant help but get involved, and join
> the team.
> 
> so, can we have meetings? is that acceptable?
> 

You already got the answer on IRC. If you want them. Make them happen.

> i propose we literally mirror what xubuntu has for structure, put that on
> an agenda for a meeting, where, folks can go and edit the items, and, we
> vote them in.. we can schedule that meeting for november, to give the
> team
> time to review, and add different items to be voted on. we can aim for
> monthly meetings, which, i think would be an adequate start.
> 

We have very different goals compared to that of Xubuntu. That means,
our structure will look different.
But, we should always try to improve things, also by looking at how
others do things.

The organization that we have is one that is the result of the evolution
of Ubuntu Studio. I'm not going to throw away years of work just cause
you feel that is for the best. And, since I have been the most active
person in organizing it the last years, that means I have done most of
the work. That is not the same as dictating. That is where you are
misunderstanding the whole thing.

> you and i and other interested parties on the IRC can determine a good
> meeting time, for global attendance.
> 
> i dont what to do this around you. i want to do this with your support.
> 
> 

Just set it up holstein.