[ubuntu-studio-devel] continued as per request, from IRC

Sun Aug 23 00:45:17 UTC 2015

On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 4:24 AM, Kaj Ailomaa <zequence at mousike.me> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015, at 03:36 AM, Mike Holstein wrote:
> > i think this was just a miscommunication.
> >
> > i appreciate your through answer, and understand the points you make.
> >
> > the point i was making as to "why no one is uploading files to
> > ubuntu(studio)", was, we dont really need to get coders to join the
> > ubuntustudio team. i agree, and think it would be great to attract some
> > folks that can do that. but, we dont have to build the community/team up
> > of
> > just that kind of contributor. it could be just normal end users who want
> > to help, and find other upstream developers to assist with projects that
> > we
> > need help with. i think there is plenty that non code contributors could
> > do.
> >
> >
>
> No one has ever claimed that we don't have use for non-coders. I really
> don't know what that has to do with anything. That was not what we were
> discussing. But, I will return to that at the end of this post.
>
> Cause, you were saying a lot of things that day didn't make sense.
>
> You were claiming that we don't have control of our own sources.
> But, in reality, we have full control of all of our sources. Anyone in
> our -dev team have full access to make changes. I have upload rights to
> the Ubuntu archive. And, no one is telling us what to do with those
> sources (we just need to follow policy, of course).
> Additionally, I, as well as others (Ross maybe?), have access to all of
> the Debian Multimedia repositories, so those of us are able to make
> changes upstream, if needed (which I almost never do, cause I don't have
> the time to get educated enough about what I could do).
> In short, we have more control than we are making use of.
>
> You were claiming that I dictate how things work here, which is simply
> not true. I am the lead, so I do quality control of what everyone else
> is doing. But, I don't tell people what to do, unless they ask me to.
> I ask people to take some initiative, and get things done. To take
> command of something that they are interested in. I offered you to do
> the same. We don't have anyone taking charge of PR and Support, and that
> would work great for you, I think.
> The only thing I'm worried about is that you would spread misinformation
> due to the fact that you seem to have wrong information about how we do
> things.
>
> Examples of other people taking initiative (not counting all):
>  * madeinkobaua is art lead, though not very active. He takes command of
>  the artwork.
>  * Ross is mostly focused on fixing bugs and working on more general
>  packaging for both Debian and Ubuntu, though he has also been active
>  with the categorization part.
>  * Len has created some packages from scratch, and done a lot of work on
>  many of our packages.
>  * Remember smartboyhw? He was responsible for our releases and took
>  care of all of that for a while. This is also something someone could
>  do, if they wanted. But, first step is to do testing.
>  * I have been involved in all of those, naturally, since I am lead and
>  need to be informed. Also, I have worked very hard on documenting our
>  development process, so that it is easier for new people to get
>  involved. I also maintained linux-lowlatency for a few years, which I
>  was a part of getting into the repos in the first place. I do a lot of
>  things that I wouldn't need to, would there be more active developers.
>
> So, what we need is just more people who are actively partaking in
> developing Ubuntu Studio.
>
> We have defined different areas, and each would benefit from someone
> taking the lead.
>  * artwork (madeinkobaya is lead)
>  * development (no leads, but people can take charge of different
>  projects, and not only coders)
>    * packaging and bug fixing
>    * categorization and defining workflows
>    * package selection for our workflows
>    * application development
>  * documentation (no lead - so I am doing this)
>  * PR & Support (no lead - so I am doing this)
>  * Testing (no lead - so I am doing this)
>
> All of this is defined in our blueprints, which we use for organizing
> our work. But, almost no activity there, unfortunately.
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/ubuntustudio-topic-x
>
> About coders, vs non-coders. Well, as you can see, there's plenty of
> work for non-coders, would they be willing. That includes you, would you
> be willing.
> For just keeping Ubuntu Studio alive, we need at least one person with
> packaging skills. But, to do the things we would like to do, it would be
> better with more coders.
>
> I don't know hostein. Frankly, I think you are barking at the wrong
> trees most of the time. And, probably not helping very much in the end.
> If you would like to help though, please take lead of PR & Support.
>

this is frustrating. since, i am interested in helping with PR, but, i dont
think its fair to the rest of the community that you dictate who is in
charge of it. i very much appreciate the offer, and, would like to just
take the position, but, it wouldnt be fair to those, such as cub, who has
shown interest in PR as well, and as recent as a few days ago in IRC.

what i would like to do is define the positions we need, in real time, in
IRC meetings that we can hold in a similar fashion to that of the other
ubuntu teams. if you just dictate the position to me, here, in a random
email, then, when is the position available again? who can run for it
again? and when? and what are the responsibilities and expectations? even
if its just you, me, and len in the irc channel constructively discussing
the terms of the position, i think that would be productive, and facilitate
an open community, where, a person interested in PR could plan to attend
the meeting, and discuss, etc..

if you feel im looking at this wrong, i welcome a discussion about it. we
havent had a team meeting in years, and, i think it would be welcome for us
to have simply monthly meetings, with a posted agenda, and do them in the
official meeting channel. im not asking anyone to do any more work. im not
criticizing anyone's work. im not asking to replace anyone's position. im
asking that the team have an infrastructure that more closely matches the
other teams. the team has been run, where, the lead position is really the
only position, and there are no parameters for that position, or length of
the term of office, or, expectations for it. all i want is more of a
democratic situation that closely matches a team like xubuntu.

this is really the only "tree im barking at".. i just want a more
democratic process for the team. i dont want you dictating to the group who
the PR lead is in an email. i dont want to get CAPS and cursed at in the
IRC channel. i want to be so overwhelmingly open and welcoming that you and
i, and the rest of the team are having such amazing exchanges, and doing
such positive development that folks cant help but get involved, and join
the team.

so, can we have meetings? is that acceptable?

i propose we literally mirror what xubuntu has for structure, put that on
an agenda for a meeting, where, folks can go and edit the items, and, we
vote them in.. we can schedule that meeting for november, to give the team
time to review, and add different items to be voted on. we can aim for
monthly meetings, which, i think would be an adequate start.

you and i and other interested parties on the IRC can determine a good
meeting time, for global attendance.

i dont what to do this around you. i want to do this with your support.

>
> And, anyone who reads this, don't be shy if you find something you would
> be interested in doing.
>
> I will be more clear about this stuff for next cycle. All of this has
> been floating in the air for a few years now, but I have not been able
> to finish up the organization of it all. Now, I have the time, so I will
> do my best to make this a reality. And, to make it very clear to
> everyone who is involved, or wants to be involved, what we do and what
> they can do.
>
> --
> ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
> ubuntu-studio-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>

-- 
MH

likethecow.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/attachments/20150822/646c9b04/attachment-0001.html>