Kaj Ailomaa zequence at mousike.me
Mon Oct 15 05:51:02 UTC 2012

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 03:16:16 +0200, Eric Hedekar <afterthebeep at gmail.com>  

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Kaj Ailomaa <zequence at mousike.me> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:16:34 +0200, Len Ovens <len at ovenwerks.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, October 14, 2012 2:44 pm, ttoine wrote:
>>>> Eric,
>>>> But is there a "fully open and free software" that can used instead of
>>>> LMMS ?
>>> I think the licensing issues are wine related. The fonts in particular  
>>> But
>>> they are not depends so we may be able to just not install them and  
>>> still
>>> run LMMS. But, the amd64 version of LMMS does not have VST support (or
>>> need wine) so we would be supporting two different versions, a full 32  
>>> bit
>>> and a less full 64bit. Anyone trying to help someone with LMMS who has  
>>> the
>>> 32 bit version would frustrate the 64bit user. (the kxstudio versions  
>>> have
>>> the same problem BTW) I am beginning to understand why LMMS has not  
>>> been
>>> included in the distro...
>> I haven't heard anyone else but you talk about these issues, so I'm not  
>> hearing any evidence that this would be the case.
>> VST support on Linux, with wine, is somewhat an extra addition, which  
>> requries it's own knowledgebase. It's not a requirement in >>any way.
>> I don't see why this has to have any weight at all in deciding whether  
>> or not to add an open source Linux program to the default >>set of  
>> Ubuntu Studio applications.
>> As to the lack of info on Linux+VST in Ubuntu Studio docs, this could  
>> be ammended by writing some. Or, pointing with links to docs >>that  
>> deals with it.
> Kaj,
> The LMMS package in Ubuntu is built upon the wine libraries in the  
> universe repository (this is done to allow VST support out of the >box  
> without advanced re-compiling).  In order for the LMMS binary to run in  
> Ubuntu a wine package needs to be installed.  The wine >package  
> recommends fonts that require the user's manual acceptance for install.   
> By default the apt-get program automatically >installs all 'recommends'  
> packages.  So there are two possible routes for us to possibly include  
> LMMS in Ubuntu Studio:1) Write some install code that prevents apt-get  
> from installing the recommends for wine (this would give users a poor  
> wine >experience on their machines, but it's possible to get their  
> approval later on to install these recommends to fix the wine  
> >experience but that'd require more script writing).

I think this is the best approach. And this is only for the 32bit version,  
since the 64bit is not compiled with wine support.
The LMMS package has not been updated for a couple of years, which is  
another problem to consider, but both solving the lack of wine support on  
64bit, and updating the package is best done by Debian Multimedia Team,  
and if we are not planning on helping them with that(cause we are  
undermanned, and have lack of time), at least we can work on making the  
installation easy for the user.
If we add LMMS, we'll add info about wine support for 32bit/64bit on the  
homepage, as well as the community help docs.

If we do decide to add LMMS, I'll volunteer to do this.

>  2) Recompile the LMMS binary in Ubuntu so that VST support is no longer  
> working.  This is a flawed logic option IMHO as one of the >main things  
> LMMS claims is to be a fruity-loops substitute.  For new users to Linux,  
> having the option of either a non-VST version >of LMMS pre-installed or  
> a functioning VST version of LMMS that is manually installed, the later  
> is probably much more preferable.  >Not everyone needs VST but some do,  
> and deactivating this feature of the program for all Ubuntu users just  
> so the program can >legally be included by default in our distro seems  
> quite silly and counter productive to our distro's goals.
> ttoine,There's lots of LMMS alternatives from what I know of the  
> program.  Users can also just install LMMS if they don't like those  
> >alternatives.  Having it installed by default poses too many hurdles  
> for what we gain.
> - Eric Hedekar
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