Fwd: Re: Framebuffers, plymouth, upstart and server installs.

[Spencer Krum]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Spencer Krum" <krum.spencer at gmail.com>
Date: Jan 3, 2013 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Framebuffers, plymouth, upstart and server installs.
To: "Douglas Stanley" <douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com>

This affects me as well. Whenever a /et/networking/interfaces is wrong or
an /etc/fdisk is wrong, plymouth gets in the way and makes it harder to fix
the problem.

Id be happy to help with testing or what little I know of packaging.
On Jan 3, 2013 2:01 PM, "Douglas Stanley" <douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sander Smeenk <ssmeenk at freshdot.net>wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I recently got directed here from ubuntu-devel-discuss with my
>> pet-peeves on how i think Ubuntu Server is not really tailored for
>> servers [anymore], the thread of which you can read up on here:
>>
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2013-January/014163.html
>>
>> I wrote about these issues in an earlier thread on this list too:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/thread.html
>>
>> Basically it boils down to quotes from the above shown threads;
>> | "I like to be able to watch the [boot] process happen. [ .. ] I don't
>> | care if my server looks pretty when it's booting.  I do care that I
>> | can see at what point in the boot process a catastrophic failure has
>> | occurred."
>> and;
>> | "[ .. ] under no circumstance should a server blindly come up in a mode
>> | in which it cannot display to a virtual console. Never. Ever. No
>> Excuse."
>>
>> In fact, and i really, *really* don't mean to insult any one involved in
>> ubuntu-server development, but i kind-of wonder if the people putting
>> all this hard work in ubuntu-server are actually using ubuntu-server on a
>> daily basis on more than one system like a lot of sysadmins like myself
>> do.
>>
>> Me and my team manage roughly 200 servers running Ubuntu. We encounter
>> situations where we have old CRT monitors, shady KVM-switches and crappy
>> ILOM/ELOM/DRAC java implementations with which we have to manage our
>> servers. Situations where (we/the customer) botched something up which
>> makes the bootprocess fail, etc.
>>
>> Framebuffers, or rather 'special video modes', are somewhat unstable on
>> server hardware and/or plain right incompatible with shady KVM
>> implementations which are, unfortunately, commonly used in colocated
>> environments.
>>
>> What i really want to know is 'why' all this is necessary on server
>> installs ad what we / i can do to get a clearer view on what is
>> actually going on during boot.
>>
>> The path Ubuntu Server followed from Ubuntu Desktop is to depend on
>> framebuffers and upstart during boot and to switch off the GRUB menu
>> by default.
>>
>> I'd like to propose the (re)introduction of a special '-server' kernel
>> which has no framebuffers enabled? Some mechanism to tune GRUB into
>> verbose, 80x24 text mode when installed on a Server setup? Implement
>> 'tee(1)' functionality in Upstart perhaps?
>>
>> Is any of this discussable?
>>
>> With warm regards,
>> -Sander.
>> --
>> | 0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down,
>> | pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall.
>> | 4096R/20CC6CD2 - 6D40 1A20 B9AA 87D4 84C7  FBD6 F3A9 9442 20CC 6CD2
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-server mailing list
>> ubuntu-server at lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
>> More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
>>
>
>
> I whole-heartedly agree with every sentiment!
>
> Also, there are related issues when running ubuntu-server as a VM on kvm
> (or technically, the minimal virtual install version). I tend to use serial
> consoles for my vm's, so that I can access them via ssh, and it's a pain to
> get boot output sent to the serial console and not the vnc consoles...
>
> Just wanted to add that pet peeve to the above list as it's related...
>
> Doug
>
> --
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> --
> ubuntu-server mailing list
> ubuntu-server at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
> More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
>
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