Fwd: Re: Framebuffers, plymouth, upstart and server installs.

[S`row-Lain]

+1
We want on our servers debug output on screen. There is absolutly no reason
for plymouth imho.

thx

Am 07.01.2013 20:52, schrieb Spencer Krum:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Spencer Krum" <krum.spencer at gmail.com 
> <mailto:krum.spencer at gmail.com>>
> Date: Jan 3, 2013 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Framebuffers, plymouth, upstart and server installs.
> To: "Douglas Stanley" <douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com 
> <mailto:douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com>>
>
> This affects me as well. Whenever a /et/networking/interfaces is wrong 
> or an /etc/fdisk is wrong, plymouth gets in the way and makes it 
> harder to fix the problem.
>
> Id be happy to help with testing or what little I know of packaging.
>
> On Jan 3, 2013 2:01 PM, "Douglas Stanley" <douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com 
> <mailto:douglas.m.stanley at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sander Smeenk
>     <ssmeenk at freshdot.net <mailto:ssmeenk at freshdot.net>> wrote:
>
>         Hello list,
>
>         I recently got directed here from ubuntu-devel-discuss with my
>         pet-peeves on how i think Ubuntu Server is not really tailored for
>         servers [anymore], the thread of which you can read up on here:
>         https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2013-January/014163.html
>
>         I wrote about these issues in an earlier thread on this list too:
>         https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/thread.html
>
>         Basically it boils down to quotes from the above shown threads;
>         | "I like to be able to watch the [boot] process happen. [ ..
>         ] I don't
>         | care if my server looks pretty when it's booting.  I do care
>         that I
>         | can see at what point in the boot process a catastrophic
>         failure has
>         | occurred."
>         and;
>         | "[ .. ] under no circumstance should a server blindly come
>         up in a mode
>         | in which it cannot display to a virtual console. Never.
>         Ever. No Excuse."
>
>         In fact, and i really, *really* don't mean to insult any one
>         involved in
>         ubuntu-server development, but i kind-of wonder if the people
>         putting
>         all this hard work in ubuntu-server are actually using
>         ubuntu-server on a
>         daily basis on more than one system like a lot of sysadmins
>         like myself
>         do.
>
>         Me and my team manage roughly 200 servers running Ubuntu. We
>         encounter
>         situations where we have old CRT monitors, shady KVM-switches
>         and crappy
>         ILOM/ELOM/DRAC java implementations with which we have to
>         manage our
>         servers. Situations where (we/the customer) botched something
>         up which
>         makes the bootprocess fail, etc.
>
>         Framebuffers, or rather 'special video modes', are somewhat
>         unstable on
>         server hardware and/or plain right incompatible with shady KVM
>         implementations which are, unfortunately, commonly used in
>         colocated
>         environments.
>
>         What i really want to know is 'why' all this is necessary on
>         server
>         installs ad what we / i can do to get a clearer view on what is
>         actually going on during boot.
>
>         The path Ubuntu Server followed from Ubuntu Desktop is to
>         depend on
>         framebuffers and upstart during boot and to switch off the
>         GRUB menu
>         by default.
>
>         I'd like to propose the (re)introduction of a special
>         '-server' kernel
>         which has no framebuffers enabled? Some mechanism to tune GRUB
>         into
>         verbose, 80x24 text mode when installed on a Server setup?
>         Implement
>         'tee(1)' functionality in Upstart perhaps?
>
>         Is any of this discussable?
>
>         With warm regards,
>         -Sander.
>         --
>         | 0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1
>         down,
>         | pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall.
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>         20CC 6CD2
>
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>
>
>
>     I whole-heartedly agree with every sentiment!
>
>     Also, there are related issues when running ubuntu-server as a VM
>     on kvm (or technically, the minimal virtual install version). I
>     tend to use serial consoles for my vm's, so that I can access them
>     via ssh, and it's a pain to get boot output sent to the serial
>     console and not the vnc consoles...
>
>     Just wanted to add that pet peeve to the above list as it's related...
>
>     Doug
>
>     -- 
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>
>