<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Spencer Krum" <<a href="mailto:krum.spencer@gmail.com">krum.spencer@gmail.com</a>><br>Date: Jan 3, 2013 4:52 PM<br>Subject: Re: Framebuffers, plymouth, upstart and server installs.<br>
To: "Douglas Stanley" <<a href="mailto:douglas.m.stanley@gmail.com">douglas.m.stanley@gmail.com</a>><br><br type="attribution"><p>This affects me as well. Whenever a /et/networking/interfaces is wrong or an /etc/fdisk is wrong, plymouth gets in the way and makes it harder to fix the problem.</p>
<p>Id be happy to help with testing or what little I know of packaging.</p><div class="elided-text">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 3, 2013 2:01 PM, "Douglas Stanley" <<a href="mailto:douglas.m.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">douglas.m.stanley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sander Smeenk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ssmeenk@freshdot.net" target="_blank">ssmeenk@freshdot.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello list,<br>
<br>
I recently got directed here from ubuntu-devel-discuss with my<br>
pet-peeves on how i think Ubuntu Server is not really tailored for<br>
servers [anymore], the thread of which you can read up on here:<br>
<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2013-January/014163.html" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2013-January/014163.html</a><br>
<br>
I wrote about these issues in an earlier thread on this list too:<br>
<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/thread.html" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-April/thread.html</a><br>
<br>
Basically it boils down to quotes from the above shown threads;<br>
| "I like to be able to watch the [boot] process happen. [ .. ] I don't<br>
| care if my server looks pretty when it's booting. I do care that I<br>
| can see at what point in the boot process a catastrophic failure has<br>
| occurred."<br>
and;<br>
| "[ .. ] under no circumstance should a server blindly come up in a mode<br>
| in which it cannot display to a virtual console. Never. Ever. No Excuse."<br>
<br>
In fact, and i really, *really* don't mean to insult any one involved in<br>
ubuntu-server development, but i kind-of wonder if the people putting<br>
all this hard work in ubuntu-server are actually using ubuntu-server on a<br>
daily basis on more than one system like a lot of sysadmins like myself<br>
do.<br>
<br>
Me and my team manage roughly 200 servers running Ubuntu. We encounter<br>
situations where we have old CRT monitors, shady KVM-switches and crappy<br>
ILOM/ELOM/DRAC java implementations with which we have to manage our<br>
servers. Situations where (we/the customer) botched something up which<br>
makes the bootprocess fail, etc.<br>
<br>
Framebuffers, or rather 'special video modes', are somewhat unstable on<br>
server hardware and/or plain right incompatible with shady KVM<br>
implementations which are, unfortunately, commonly used in colocated<br>
environments.<br>
<br>
What i really want to know is 'why' all this is necessary on server<br>
installs ad what we / i can do to get a clearer view on what is<br>
actually going on during boot.<br>
<br>
The path Ubuntu Server followed from Ubuntu Desktop is to depend on<br>
framebuffers and upstart during boot and to switch off the GRUB menu<br>
by default.<br>
<br>
I'd like to propose the (re)introduction of a special '-server' kernel<br>
which has no framebuffers enabled? Some mechanism to tune GRUB into<br>
verbose, 80x24 text mode when installed on a Server setup? Implement<br>
'tee(1)' functionality in Upstart perhaps?<br>
<br>
Is any of this discussable?<br>
<br>
With warm regards,<br>
-Sander.<br>
<span><font color="#888888">--<br>
| 0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down,<br>
| pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall.<br>
| 4096R/20CC6CD2 - 6D40 1A20 B9AA 87D4 84C7 FBD6 F3A9 9442 20CC 6CD2<br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br><div><div><div><div>I whole-heartedly agree with every sentiment!<br><br></div>Also,
there are related issues when running ubuntu-server as a VM on kvm (or
technically, the minimal virtual install version). I tend to use serial
consoles for my vm's, so that I can access them via ssh, and it's a pain
to get boot output sent to the serial console and not the vnc
consoles...<br><br></div>Just wanted to add that pet peeve to the above list as it's related...<br><br></div>Doug<br></div><br>-- <br>Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.<br>See <a href="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html" target="_blank">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html</a>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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More info: <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam" target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam</a><br></blockquote></div>
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