Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

[Scott Kitterman]

On Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:19:05 am Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> 
wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman
> >> >> <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> >> > 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400 
2010:
> >> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions
> >> >> >> > about the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands?
> >> >> >> > #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room
> >> >> >> > like #ubuntu-vm for virtual machines that would include xen,
> >> >> >> > kvm, virsh, virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >>   1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
> >> >> >>      * e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >>   2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
> >> >> >>      * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a *
> >> >> >> virtual machine, getting it installed, configuration/management
> >> >> >> of services, virtualization, etc.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >>   3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
> >> >> >>      * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
> >> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
> >> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic
> >> >> > in #ubuntu- server.  I object to this change.  #ubuntu-server has
> >> >> > been a joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.
> >> >> >  It's the one place in the Ubuntu project where users and
> >> >> > developers are on the same channels (yes, some developers are on
> >> >> > user channels, to help, but that's different).  We discussed this
> >> >> > very change not very long ago and the consensus was not to change
> >> >> > it.
> >> >> > 
> >> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
> >> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed
> >> >> > separately (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the
> >> >> > discussion so soon).
> >> >> 
> >> >> Scott,
> >> >> 
> >> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
> >> >> development discussion perspective.  There's plenty of
> >> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
> >> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic.  No one is getting kicked/banned
> >> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
> >> >> devel (in my opinion).
> >> >> 
> >> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
> >> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the
> >> >> landscape for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the
> >> >> maze for our users seeking cloud-related support.
> >> >> 
> >> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
> >> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel.  As I remember it,
> >> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
> >> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
> >> >> user support channel.  I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
> >> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
> >> > 
> >> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
> >> >  "Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear
> >> > to me.
> >> 
> >> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true.  Development discussion
> >> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
> >> 
> >> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
> >> #ubuntu-server.
> >> 
> >> Have you gotten that impression?  Does the above policy deserve some
> >> clarification?  Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
> >> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
> >> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server.  That's just
> >> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
> > 
> > I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of
> > development discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being
> > mentioned in #ubuntu-devel.
> > 
> > When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel
> > even needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development
> > discussions are supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).
> > 
> > I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as
> > written it certainly appears to me that it does.
> 
> Okay, shall we ask Ahmed to update his proposal to note that "sever"
> specific development discussion should continue in #ubuntu-devel?
> Would that assuage your concerns, Scott?
> 
I'd propose this as a revision:

1) Traditional server development and discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
     * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a virtual machine,
       getting it installed, configuration/management of services,
       virtualization, etc.
    * e.g. server package packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.

2) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
 * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2, cloud work loads,
    ensemble cloud magic, etc.

Scott K