Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

[Dustin Kirkland]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 11:19:05 am Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman
>> >> >> <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
>> >> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400
> 2010:
>> >> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions
>> >> >> >> > about the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands?
>> >> >> >> > #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room
>> >> >> >> > like #ubuntu-vm for virtual machines that would include xen,
>> >> >> >> > kvm, virsh, virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>   1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
>> >> >> >>      * e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>   2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
>> >> >> >>      * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a *
>> >> >> >> virtual machine, getting it installed, configuration/management
>> >> >> >> of services, virtualization, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>   3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
>> >> >> >>      * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
>> >> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
>> >> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic
>> >> >> > in #ubuntu- server.  I object to this change.  #ubuntu-server has
>> >> >> > been a joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.
>> >> >> >  It's the one place in the Ubuntu project where users and
>> >> >> > developers are on the same channels (yes, some developers are on
>> >> >> > user channels, to help, but that's different).  We discussed this
>> >> >> > very change not very long ago and the consensus was not to change
>> >> >> > it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
>> >> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed
>> >> >> > separately (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the
>> >> >> > discussion so soon).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Scott,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
>> >> >> development discussion perspective.  There's plenty of
>> >> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
>> >> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic.  No one is getting kicked/banned
>> >> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
>> >> >> devel (in my opinion).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
>> >> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the
>> >> >> landscape for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the
>> >> >> maze for our users seeking cloud-related support.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
>> >> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel.  As I remember it,
>> >> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
>> >> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
>> >> >> user support channel.  I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
>> >> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
>> >> >  "Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear
>> >> > to me.
>> >>
>> >> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true.  Development discussion
>> >> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
>> >>
>> >> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
>> >> #ubuntu-server.
>> >>
>> >> Have you gotten that impression?  Does the above policy deserve some
>> >> clarification?  Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
>> >> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
>> >> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server.  That's just
>> >> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
>> >
>> > I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of
>> > development discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being
>> > mentioned in #ubuntu-devel.
>> >
>> > When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel
>> > even needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development
>> > discussions are supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as
>> > written it certainly appears to me that it does.
>>
>> Okay, shall we ask Ahmed to update his proposal to note that "sever"
>> specific development discussion should continue in #ubuntu-devel?
>> Would that assuage your concerns, Scott?
>>
> I'd propose this as a revision:
>
> 1) Traditional server development and discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
>     * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a virtual machine,
>       getting it installed, configuration/management of services,
>       virtualization, etc.
>    * e.g. server package packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
>
> 2) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
>  * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2, cloud work loads,
>    ensemble cloud magic, etc.

No objections here.  Thanks, Scott.

:-Dustin