Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

[Dustin Kirkland]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400 2010:
>> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions about
>> >> >> > the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands? #ubuntu-server
>> >> >> > or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room like #ubuntu-vm
>> >> >> >  for virtual machines that would include xen, kvm, virsh,
>> >> >> > virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
>> >> >>      * e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
>> >> >>      * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a * virtual
>> >> >>        machine, getting it installed, configuration/management of
>> >> >>        services, virtualization, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
>> >> >>      * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
>> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
>> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
>> >> >
>> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic in
>> >> > #ubuntu- server.  I object to this change.  #ubuntu-server has been a
>> >> > joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.  It's the one
>> >> > place in the Ubuntu project where users and developers are on the same
>> >> > channels (yes, some developers are on user channels, to help, but
>> >> > that's different).  We discussed this very change not very long ago
>> >> > and the consensus was not to change it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
>> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed separately
>> >> > (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the discussion so
>> >> > soon).
>> >>
>> >> Scott,
>> >>
>> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
>> >> development discussion perspective.  There's plenty of
>> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
>> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic.  No one is getting kicked/banned
>> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
>> >> devel (in my opinion).
>> >>
>> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
>> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the landscape
>> >> for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the maze for our
>> >> users seeking cloud-related support.
>> >>
>> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
>> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel.  As I remember it,
>> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
>> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
>> >> user support channel.  I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
>> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
>> >
>> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
>> >  "Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear to
>> > me.
>>
>> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true.  Development discussion
>> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
>>
>> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
>> #ubuntu-server.
>>
>> Have you gotten that impression?  Does the above policy deserve some
>> clarification?  Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
>> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
>> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server.  That's just
>> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
>>
> I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of development
> discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being mentioned in
> #ubuntu-devel.
>
> When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel even
> needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development discussions are
> supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).
>
> I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as
> written it certainly appears to me that it does.

Okay, shall we ask Ahmed to update his proposal to note that "sever"
specific development discussion should continue in #ubuntu-devel?
Would that assuage your concerns, Scott?

:-Dustin