Ubuntu server and cloud IRC consolidation

[Scott Kitterman]

On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02:05 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> 
wrote:
> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 04:21:36 pm Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:28:28 am Mathias Gug wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> 
> >> >> Excerpts from Dan Sheffner's message of Wed Aug 11 11:14:04 -0400 2010:
> >> >> > I guess the only question I have is where do I ask questions about
> >> >> > the KVM hypervisor, virsh, and vmbuilder commands? #ubuntu-server
> >> >> > or #ubuntu-cloud? it would nice to have one room like #ubuntu-vm
> >> >> >  for virtual machines that would include xen, kvm, virsh,
> >> >> > virtualbox, eucalyptus, etc.
> >> >> 
> >> >> As outlined in the proposal:
> >> >> 
> >> >>   1) Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel
> >> >>      * e.g. packaging, patching, debugging, development, etc.
> >> >> 
> >> >>   2) Traditional server discussion happens in #ubuntu-server
> >> >>      * e.g. running Ubuntu on your server hardware or in a * virtual
> >> >>        machine, getting it installed, configuration/management of
> >> >>        services, virtualization, etc.
> >> >> 
> >> >>   3) New-age cloud server discussion happens in #ubuntu-cloud
> >> >>      * e.g. running UEC private clouds, running Ubuntu * in EC2,
> >> >> cloud work loads, ensemble cloud magic, etc.
> >> >> 
> >> >> #ubuntu-server seems the appropriate place to ask questions about
> >> >> KVM, virsh and vmbuilder.
> >> > 
> >> > I missed in the original proposal that development is now off topic in
> >> > #ubuntu- server.  I object to this change.  #ubuntu-server has been a
> >> > joint developer/user channel for a very long time now.  It's the one
> >> > place in the Ubuntu project where users and developers are on the same
> >> > channels (yes, some developers are on user channels, to help, but
> >> > that's different).  We discussed this very change not very long ago
> >> > and the consensus was not to change it.
> >> > 
> >> > I feel like this change was slipped in with other changes about IRC
> >> > channel consolidation and should have been (re) discussed separately
> >> > (although honestly I don't see the need to revisit the discussion so
> >> > soon).
> >> 
> >> Scott,
> >> 
> >> I don't think anything really changes in #ubuntu-server, from a
> >> development discussion perspective.  There's plenty of
> >> development-related conversations that will continue in
> >> #ubuntu-server, perfectly on-topic.  No one is getting kicked/banned
> >> from there, and no one should get slapped on the wrist for talking
> >> devel (in my opinion).
> >> 
> >> I read Ahmed's proposition to really be about consolidating
> >> cloud/virt/ensemble/ec2 channels into one -- simplifying the landscape
> >> for those of us subscribed to all 4 and unraveling the maze for our
> >> users seeking cloud-related support.
> >> 
> >> The previous recent discussion you refer to, I think, was about
> >> splitting #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-server-devel.  As I remember it,
> >> we, as a community, n'acked the creation/separation to
> >> #ubuntu-server-devel, as we didn't want to divorce ourselves from our
> >> user support channel.  I still agree with that sentiment, and I think
> >> that's unchanged even in Ahmed's IRC realignment suggestion.
> > 
> > Then I'm a little unclear what Mathiaz' point #1 is about then.
> >  "Development discussion happens in #ubuntu-devel" seems pretty clear to
> > me.
> 
> I think it's pretty clear, and 100% true.  Development discussion
> does, in fact, happen in #ubuntu-devel.
> 
> I haven't seen anything forbidding development discussion happening in
> #ubuntu-server.
> 
> Have you gotten that impression?  Does the above policy deserve some
> clarification?  Perhaps that "general" Ubuntu development discussion
> should land in #ubuntu-devel, while Server-specific development
> discussion is encouraged (or belongs) in #ubuntu-server.  That's just
> status quo, as far as I'm concerned, though.
> 
I did get that impression based on the complete lack of mention of development 
discussion in the #ubuntu-server description and it being mentioned in 
#ubuntu-devel.

When discussing Ubuntu Server development, I don't think #ubuntu-devel even 
needs a mention as that's not where Ubuntu Server development discussions are 
supposed (as I (and apparently you) understand it).

I'm not sure if it was intended to change the status quo or not, but as 
written it certainly appears to me that it does.

Scott K