Light reading : Technical terms - translate or not translate?

Abstract thikrat at gmail.com
Mon Aug 4 12:58:02 BST 2008 

I think you hit it right on the head with that one.  That's the best example
I ever heard.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Jad/Hakam madi <Jad at ubuntu.com> wrote:

> another thing, people use what is classy, I dare you to ask for قهوه
> بارده بالحليب instead of frappuccino!
>
> 2008/8/4 Abstract <thikrat at gmail.com>:
> > You make some extremely valid points but the issue is that the masses
> decide
> > what the correct term is and that word becomes a de-facto standard and
> > becomes
> > part of the language.  The number of Arabic words in the English language
> is
> > astounding
> > but the words have undergone such a transformation and with time have
> become
> > somewhat
> > English in their own way.  Lets take the word "cipher" in English as an
> > example, derived from
> > "sifr" or "zero" in Arabic.  Cipher means a code of some sort but is
> still
> > based on the Arabic word for
> > zero.  Cipher is now more English than Arabic and I dare say, now has
> almost
> > no connection to the Arabic root.
> >
> > I understand and agree with the sense of pride that comes with having
> your
> > own word for
> > something in a language but if people don't use that word it becomes null
> > and void.  At that
> > point trying to use a word from the language itself can be viewed in a
> > somewhat negative manner.
> > If Arabic is to grow linguistically in the tech field then people at the
> > forefront (like people on these lists) need to use an arabic word at the
> > beginning (like your word for proxy).  Even if its wrong, it will make
> the
> > basis Arabic and then
> > the masses will use the word they heard the first time, not the new
> > corrected word 5 years later.
> >
> > People memorize, they don't necessarily learn... the sooner Arabic is
> used
> > for terms and taught in schools
> > the better.  Using terms in software NOW is a good way of setting a
> standard
> > as people will be forced
> > to use them.  Anyways, just my 2 cents, I love the open and intellectual
> > conversation.
> >
> > -rami
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Borrowing words from other language is an option and it can be well
> >> tolerated it it is an exception done occasionally, may be with the idea
> >> that it can be very will replaced with a native Arabic word when a
> >> suitable one is present. Otherwise, with the massive number of new terms
> >> appearing every year, way may compromise the integrity of our language
> >> rendering it a heterogeneous collection of badly coined words with no
> >> connections to each other.
> >>
> >> Also, the common claim that English terms are "more obvious" than Arabic
> >> counterparts that we should simply borrow the English one is a very
> >> false claim based in the assumptions that every one knows the English
> >> term (and that every one knows it really understands it linguistically
> >> wise), which is very untrue. I'll give you a simple real example: I've
> >> been seeing the word proxy transliterated into Arabic for years, and I
> >> never happen to know what does it mean, until I encountered it in the
> >> translation, then with some research I realized that it originates from
> >> the legal term of وكيل or وسيط hence we now translate it as وسيط, now it
> >> is a really obvious term that I bet every one can guess its technical
> >> meaning with much little effort.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>  Khaled
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:40:03AM -0400, Abstract wrote:
> >> > Khaled,
> >> >
> >> > Yes, that makes perfect sense, as many words in English have Arabic
> >> > roots as
> >> > well.  I believe it's common
> >> > and no fault or weakness of a language to make use of some words from
> >> > another.
> >> > However, I do suggest
> >> > that classical Arabic be used as a Moroccan user may not completely
> get
> >> > "Baas"
> >> > because they use a combination of Arabic with French influence, but
> >> > they do understand the classical Arabic term.  You ever tried asking
> for
> >> > a
> >> > mobile phone in the middle east?  There are 4 words
> >> > for it, but everyone seems to understand 5elewi.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Jad/Hakam madi <Jad at ubuntu.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >     I'm not sure about Egypt but in Jordan Arabizi (Arabic Mixed with
> >> >     English) is very popular and English is very popular, actually in
> >> > many
> >> >     cases people prefer to use English terms as they are used to it
> more
> >> >     than Arabic ones, to sum it up, it's all about getting used to it
> >> >     rather than understanding the meaning 100% .
> >> >     for example in Jordan we call public bus a     although the Arabic
> >> >     term been there for long time        but we still use the word
> >> >     even in some official documents and that's because we are used to
> >> > it.
> >> >
> >> >     So it's not just about translating a term but about using it.
> >> >
> >> >     Now we are discussing Arabic translation issue in English :-)
> >> >     Happy translation.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     2008/8/2 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>:
> >> >     > Nice article, but if not so much interest in case of Arabic
> >> > translators.
> >> >     > Arabic is a completely different language with a different
> script,
> >> > using
> >> >     > English terms as such isn't a viable option, transliteration is
> as
> >> > bad.
> >> >     > In the same time, you can't depend on the common usage because
> of
> >> > the
> >> >     > diglossa status, what works with vernacular Arabic isn't (most
> of
> >> > the
> >> >     > time) suitable for the written classical or modern standard
> >> > Arabic.
> >> >     >
> >> >     > Regards,
> >> >     >  Khaled
> >> >     >
> >> >     > On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:11:19AM +0300, Jad/Hakam madi wrote:
> >> >     >> http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/33/1/
> >> >     Technical-terms---translate-or-not-translate
> >> >     >>
> >> >     >> --
> >> >     >> Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it
> >> > while
> >> >     >> you can.
> >> >     >>
> >> >     >> http://Ubuntu.com/  Linux for Human Beings
> >> >     >> http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
> >> >     >> Mobile: 962 77 7795404
> >> >     >> Skype: jadmadi
> >> >     >> 1024D/1BC049D2
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> >> >     >>
> >> >     >> --
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> >> >     > --
> >> >     >  Khaled Hosny
> >> >     >  Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
> >> >     >
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     --
> >> >     Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it
> >> > while
> >> >     you can.
> >> >
> >> >     http://Ubuntu.com/ Linux for Human Beings
> >> >     http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
> >> >     Mobile: 962 77 7795404
> >> >     Skype: jadmadi
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> >>
> >> --
> >>  Khaled Hosny
> >>  Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
> >>
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> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it while
> you can.
>
> http://Ubuntu.com/ Linux for Human Beings
> http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
> Mobile: 962 77 7795404
> Skype: jadmadi
> 1024D/1BC049D2
> CBBB C94C 7F28 8F65 1696 CF01 82DD 2C87 1BC0 49D2
>
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