complain about petty dictator op on freenode

Fri Jan 16 04:36:54 UTC 2015

I have to reply here and retract a previous statement....

"After that, he asked a simple favor, and got told that the favor he is
asking won't help him troubleshoot, and he should do it a different way.
As far as I see it, that is not anyone else's concern.  Everyone has their
own way of troubleshooting.  While some may think it is helpful, I can tell
you first hand that it comes off as rude."

While I normally stand by that, every case is different, and in this
specific scenario, I had simply forgotten that xrandr will vary greatly
from system to system, and especially xorg.conf.... which yes, in its
default state.... is not defined/populated with data, nor does it really
need to be anymore.

So with that said, I do need to add that I think there was A.) some things
that were maybe lost in translation, simply because B.) The person on the
other end didn't want to hear that their way was wrong, as they assumed
they knew what they were asking for in the first place.   I think that
condescension played an important role here, and in turn prevented anything
useful from happening regarding the troubleshooting.

Finally, k1l, let me apologize directly to you, as recently I noticed I
have been misunderstanding your perspective on some things, and maybe not
paying 100% attention, causing me to accuse you of some things that I
shouldn't be.   Sorry bud.

- phunyguy

On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Rob Tongue <robtongue at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just to kind of repeat and say "This is how I see it also", I think
> several things happened that could've been done a bit better on both
> sides.  I am not sure if that initial !ask was directed at ntz or not, but
> based on the log it just seemed like he came in and right off the bat got
> hit with an !ask.  If not, then disregard that comment.  After that, he
> asked a simple favor, and got told that the favor he is asking won't help
> him troubleshoot, and he should do it a different way.  As far as I see it,
> that is not anyone else's concern.  Everyone has their own way of
> troubleshooting.  While some may think it is helpful, I can tell you first
> hand that it comes off as rude.  "You don't know what you are doing, so do
> it this way instead.", so I can understand the frustration.   At that point
> another user stepped in and made some rude comments, and the operator went
> into damage control mode, which I understand as well.
>
> I also am on the fence with the "This is not paid help" comments. While
> that may be true, we still have to abide by the CoC, etc, or it just will
> not work.
>
> -phunyguy
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Jeffrey Flaker <jflaker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Also, remember that impatience or sarcasm doesn't always translate into
>> a text conversation.   Sarcasm that didn't translate well has been known to
>> start flame wars
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/11/2015 12:32 PM, Seb Lemery wrote:
>>
>> I don't know of if you are NTZ or not but. They way this user expected
>> support to be given was rude enough to be removed from the channel. Go for
>> a walk,  relax and be patient.  The tone used,  and especially when the
>> question was pasted again right before the mode was applied. I would have
>> muted you before that.
>> On Jan 11, 2015 12:30 PM, "Joseph Price" <pricechild at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd argue it stops being a personal issue when channel access is used to
>>> remove someone from the channel... I figure it's perfectly reasonable to
>>> complain/contest this decision? I'm sad if others don't agree.
>>>
>>>  Oh and while I'm at it, I don't buy the whole "ops aren't paid"
>>> statements... it shouldn't be used as justification - if someone doesn't
>>> want to deal with something, they can decline to get involved.
>>>
>>> On 11 January 2015 at 17:04, Seb Lemery <seblemery at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You need to take your issues to him,  it looks like a personal issue.
>>>> Ops are not paid.  They don't "have"  to give out anything. NTZ looks like
>>>> he was expecting something like a kid expects dinner.  #ubuntu is not a
>>>> place to expect answers but guidance, you have to go and read the docs.
>>>>  On Jan 11, 2015 11:16 AM, "indigo196" <indigo196 at rochester.rr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2015-01-11 at 02:35 -0500, Seb Lemery wrote:
>>>>> > Not everyone is an official member. You need to be patient. Someone
>>>>> > else will help later.
>>>>> >
>>>>> I agree with the need to be patient.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also understand that a new user unfamiliar with IRC will not
>>>>> understand not getting help when there is a 'large number' of people in
>>>>> the room. I am not sure how to best communicate some of the nuances of
>>>>> IRC, but it is an area that could be improved.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the particular case we are discussing the user asking for help was
>>>>> not the most polite, but neither was at least one person who was
>>>>> refusing help. This was not a case of not getting an answer, but a case
>>>>> of rather rudely being told to go help themselves. It is a response
>>>>> that
>>>>> aligns with RTFM and not the Ubuntu Community's desire to be helpful to
>>>>> new users.
>>>>>
>>>>> After sleeping on the issue I am most concerned with the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>  - overall rude tone from the person responding to the request for
>>>>> help.
>>>>>  - repeated "that won't fix your problem" responses, but no effort to
>>>>> offer an actual solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think either person was in the right in that conversation. Did
>>>>> the operator talk privately with ntz?
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ubuntu-irc mailing list
>>>>> Ubuntu-irc at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-irc
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> Ubuntu-irc at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-irc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Ubuntu-irc at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-irc
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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