complain about petty dictator op on freenode

[Rob Tongue]

Just to kind of repeat and say "This is how I see it also", I think several
things happened that could've been done a bit better on both sides.  I am
not sure if that initial !ask was directed at ntz or not, but based on the
log it just seemed like he came in and right off the bat got hit with an
!ask.  If not, then disregard that comment.  After that, he asked a simple
favor, and got told that the favor he is asking won't help him
troubleshoot, and he should do it a different way.  As far as I see it,
that is not anyone else's concern.  Everyone has their own way of
troubleshooting.  While some may think it is helpful, I can tell you first
hand that it comes off as rude.  "You don't know what you are doing, so do
it this way instead.", so I can understand the frustration.   At that point
another user stepped in and made some rude comments, and the operator went
into damage control mode, which I understand as well.

I also am on the fence with the "This is not paid help" comments. While
that may be true, we still have to abide by the CoC, etc, or it just will
not work.

-phunyguy

On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Jeffrey Flaker <jflaker at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Also, remember that impatience or sarcasm doesn't always translate into a
> text conversation.   Sarcasm that didn't translate well has been known to
> start flame wars
>
>
>
> On 01/11/2015 12:32 PM, Seb Lemery wrote:
>
> I don't know of if you are NTZ or not but. They way this user expected
> support to be given was rude enough to be removed from the channel. Go for
> a walk,  relax and be patient.  The tone used,  and especially when the
> question was pasted again right before the mode was applied. I would have
> muted you before that.
> On Jan 11, 2015 12:30 PM, "Joseph Price" <pricechild at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd argue it stops being a personal issue when channel access is used to
>> remove someone from the channel... I figure it's perfectly reasonable to
>> complain/contest this decision? I'm sad if others don't agree.
>>
>>  Oh and while I'm at it, I don't buy the whole "ops aren't paid"
>> statements... it shouldn't be used as justification - if someone doesn't
>> want to deal with something, they can decline to get involved.
>>
>> On 11 January 2015 at 17:04, Seb Lemery <seblemery at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You need to take your issues to him,  it looks like a personal issue.
>>> Ops are not paid.  They don't "have"  to give out anything. NTZ looks like
>>> he was expecting something like a kid expects dinner.  #ubuntu is not a
>>> place to expect answers but guidance, you have to go and read the docs.
>>>  On Jan 11, 2015 11:16 AM, "indigo196" <indigo196 at rochester.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 2015-01-11 at 02:35 -0500, Seb Lemery wrote:
>>>> > Not everyone is an official member. You need to be patient. Someone
>>>> > else will help later.
>>>> >
>>>> I agree with the need to be patient.
>>>>
>>>> I also understand that a new user unfamiliar with IRC will not
>>>> understand not getting help when there is a 'large number' of people in
>>>> the room. I am not sure how to best communicate some of the nuances of
>>>> IRC, but it is an area that could be improved.
>>>>
>>>> In the particular case we are discussing the user asking for help was
>>>> not the most polite, but neither was at least one person who was
>>>> refusing help. This was not a case of not getting an answer, but a case
>>>> of rather rudely being told to go help themselves. It is a response that
>>>> aligns with RTFM and not the Ubuntu Community's desire to be helpful to
>>>> new users.
>>>>
>>>> After sleeping on the issue I am most concerned with the following:
>>>>
>>>>  - overall rude tone from the person responding to the request for help.
>>>>  - repeated "that won't fix your problem" responses, but no effort to
>>>> offer an actual solution.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think either person was in the right in that conversation. Did
>>>> the operator talk privately with ntz?
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>
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>
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