My membership and discussion with the IRCC

[ljlbox at tiscali.it]

Hopefully this won't turn into a Usenet-style thread divided into ten
different subsectionz, but there are some points I really find 
important
to set straight about what I said.


Il 25.02.2014 20:35 Alan Bell ha scritto:

> personal views, not an IRCC groupthink thing . . .
>
> On 25/02/14 04:43, ljlbox at tiscali.it [3]wrote:
>
>> Tonight, I've given up the Ubuntu membership I acquired in 2007. It 
>> was
>> a decision that came after several events where feelings were 
>> involved,
>> though I consider one thing a climax in particular, and it is when I
>> was asked by the IRC Council to join their #ubuntu-irc-council 
>> channel
>> to discuss some things. The way I see what happened goes like this: 
>> - I
>> was asked "what I was going to do", then reassured it wasn't a 
>> "trial"
>> or attempt to "oust" me when I was perplexed at what that question 
>> was
>> even intended to mean
>
> Well from my perspective, I kinda wanted to know what you were going 
> to
> do because I wasn't sure, so that is the question I asked. I am not 
> very
> good at subtle communications, so you can read what I say and expect 
> my
> intent to line up fairly closely with what I say.

Well, I'm rarely ever sure of what other people are going to do 
(sometimes
of what I am going to do, too), but I don't necessarily go and ask 
them,
especially not in an official setting. I think one is entitled, and in 
a
sense, really expected, to draw inferences from that.


>> - I was more explicitly asked to explain how I thought "my position 
>> as
>> an op was tenable", while still being reassured it was not anything
>> resembling a "trial"
>
> yes, that question had been raised, so I asked you what you thought 
> of
> it. It wasn't a trial, it was a chat about what you wanted to do, and 
> we
> were letting you know that there were questions about your role in 
> the team.

You only did that after I *refused* to answer your original, very open-
ended, "what do you want to do" question. When I suggested there was 
maybe
an ulterior motive behind the question, THEN you let me know about the
"questions about my role in the team".

>> eventually it was made a fair
>> bit clearer that the whole thing was, in fact, spawned by complaints
>> about needing to "do some- thing" about my terrible attitude, and by
>> the "recent event" (deciting to take rww's suggestion to remove the
>> FloodBots)
>
> that was indeed what it was about, I am sorry if that wasn't clear 
> from the
> start.

I see. No, I am afraid it wasn't at all clear from the start; it took
me some guessing and (defensive) probing to find out about it.

>> - I explained how I thought my position was quite tenable, and, on
>> the other hand, how some other people's position wasn't so much
>
> which answered the question I was asking, you said you wanted to 
> remain
> part of the team. I was kinda hoping that you would remain part of 
> the team.

Ok, I consider this VERY IMPORTANT.
*NO*, I never said I wanted to "remain part of the team". In fact, what 
I
said was that I would not answer the "what do you want to do question"
(or at least not in-channel) at all, and, if anything, saying that I 
thought
my position was quite tenable but the team at large's might not be 
could
hint to the fact I may be very dubious about endorsing this "team".

I thought I informed you very clearly that I had not, and meant not, to
answer that question (whether in the positive or in the negative), by
saying what follows:

<LjL> there is no trial except there is, i gave you no information 
about
"what i want to do", but you've just taken my "defence" and are closing
this discussion.

Other IRCC members voiced they didn't consider the discussion "over", 
and
that if anything, it was over because it couldn't be "productive", and
that "no decision had been reached", and that you "should revisit it in
a couple of days".

That, to me, points to a clear understanding there would have been
developments. If the expectation was for all of us to forget about any
developments needing to take place, well, that was never my intention.


>> - I
>> was basically told that the discussion was over, and when I almost
>> begged the members who were clearest about it being over to at least
>> explain how they thought they could reconcile their trial-style
>> questions with all the reassuran
> me about it being only a discussion, I was only met with their 
> silence.
>
> Well speaking for myself, I have been somewhat offline/inattentive 
> for
> the last couple of weeks due to external factors. Sorry about that.

I'm not referring to the period of silence after the discussion, but to
the discussion itself. I asked to please explain how the IRCC could
reconcile the actual requests they were putting forward with me with 
the
concept that it was just a "chat" to "understand" things, etc, without
realizing I would most likely be deeply upset by what they were asking
and implying.

I only got Pici's answer to that, while others - who had declared the
discussion "over", and while you said you did that because I had shared
what you wanted me to, someone else put it differently - just went
silent at my earnest request to clarify the confusion I had.

Hopefully, you see that it can be strange when I'm being asked for
clarifications by a supervising body, yet am denied receiving any from
them.

> I
> was left with the impression that you wanted to be a part of the 
> team.
> Having seen some of the conversations since then it doesn't look like
> that is still the case.

You think? Well, who knows. Club that would take me as a member, etc.
No, seriously, I'm answering your question now: I don't know.
I don't believe "the team" has shown a lot of good faith towards me,
to put it mildly, and I have had more than one person tell me I should
probably just leave for my own well-being.

But, well, I'm currently really just an #Ubuntu-offtopic operator in
practice (I already gave up my #Ubuntu ops after previous troubles), 
and
I'm really quite bothered by the prospect of MY COMMUNITY - because 
that
is mostly what it is, now, as opposed to the wider Ubuntu/Canonical
bureaucracy - being just left in the hand of people a few of which 
would
rather just see that channel die as silently as possible.

So, I can say I still want to be part of my community, with the role 
I've
long held in it - that doesn't necessarily mean I want to be part of 
"the
team" in a sports-like sense. Besides, I've always hated sports.


> [snip]


by LjL
ljlbox at tiscali.it

Scopri istella, il nuovo motore per il web italiano.
Istella garantisce risultati di qualità e la possibilità di 
condividere, in modo semplice e veloce, documenti, immagini, audio e 
video.
Usa istella, vai su http://www.istella.it?wtk=amc138614816829636