Proposal to drop 32-bit Ubuntu GNOME support after 18.04 LTS

Tue Mar 28 17:46:17 UTC 2017

Dear Jeremy,

I just want to give my support for this. I think it is a very good thing
that so many vendors are dropping 32-bit support as it encourages a long
overdue upgrade. Otherwise some will probably never get round to upgrading.
There comes a point when you can't, and maybe even shouldn't, support all
the old versions of things, but instead encourage the use of the new ones,
or we will never move on and we'd still have horse-drawn carriage around in
the masses.

I understand that this will be hard for some, but I do think it is
necessary and has more positives than negatives. It's a good shove in the
right direction.

Kind Regards,

Nikita

On 28 March 2017 at 03:24, Awjin Ahn <awjinahn at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, misspoke, there has been no *decision* made yet
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Awjin Ahn <awjinahn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Jeremy,
> >
> > Could you speak a little more to how the decision was made to drop
> 32-bit?
> >
> > Personally, I'm in favor of dropping, but think it will add to the
> > discussion.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Awjin
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:02 PM, Aryan Ameri <public at aryanameri.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 28/3/17 11:08, John Gilmore wrote:
> >> > The idea of dropping i386 support seems like a step backwards to me.
> >>
> >> > If an architecture needs to be dropped due to resource constraints,
> >> > the obvious one to drop is amd64.
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> > Every computer capable of running
> >> > amd64 is also capable of running i386.  There are essentially no
> >> > applications that inherently require a 64-bit address space
> >>
> >> First of all, as the announcement made clear, ASLR hugely benefits from
> >> 64-bit address space.
> >>
> >> Secondly, the extra registers in AMD64 increase binary performance.
> >>
> >> Third, a lot of software benefits hugely from AVX and AVX2, from Blender
> >> to handbrake to GIMP. But compiling software to i386, users would forgo
> >> on 15 years worth of advancements and extensions to x86.
> >>
> >> Fourth: One of the biggest advancements in computer security in the last
> >> 15 years has been the introduction of NX bit, which is not available in
> >> 32-bit x86.
> >>
> >> Finally, a lot of us have more than 4GiB of RAM, and PAE is an ugly hack
> >> that incurs extra performance penalty.
> >>
> >> > probably hundreds of
> >> > millions, of computers can run i386 without trouble, but cannot run
> >> > amd64.  (Yes, I do regularly use multiple computers, including an
> >> > Atom-based netbook and a Pentium III server, that can't run amd64.)
> >>
> >> You use an Atom-based netbook and a Pentium III server with Ubuntu
> Gnome?!
> >>
> >> You run Gnome 3.2x on a Pentium III?!
> >>
> >> I'd like to see that in action.
> >>
> >> PS: You should buy a new atom CPU and replace that Pentium III with. It
> >> costs $60 and pays for itself in your reduced electricity usage in less
> >> than a year.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Why
> >> > is Ubuntu-GNOME throwing away this advantage that it has long held
> >> > over Windows?
> >>
> >>
> >> Engineering for the lowest common denominator has many extra costs.
> >>
> >> > For those who care about secure computing, the vendors who ship amd64
> >> > architecture chips have polluted them with embedded processors that
> >> > subvert the security of the system.
> >>
> >> >  Anyone who truly cares
> >> > about having full control over their computing environment is stuck
> >> > with buying older CPUs and motherboards.
> >>
> >> There are plenty of open architectures around where you have complete
> >> control over the ISA and can inspect the the CPU. OpenPOWER and RISC-V
> >> are two examples that come to my mind. I suggest you get yourself a
> >> POWER 8 system from IBM, it probably still uses less power than your
> >> Pentium III.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > The main reason to prefer amd64 over i386, despite the cost in
> >> > compatability, seems to be simple trendiness.  Processor chic.
> >>
> >> Oh wait. You pretend to care about security but have not heard of ASLR
> >> or NX bit. Or maybe ASLR is also just "chic"?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Finally, there is the bold but false statement in the wiki page, "If
> >> > you are running 64-bit capable hardware there are absolutely no valid
> >> > reasons to be running a 32-bit operating system."
> >> >
> >> >   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support
> >> >
> >> > What I think the author meant is that THEY could not conceive of a
> >> > reason to run a 32-bit operating system.  Or perhaps that every end
> >> > user who has a reason to run a 32-bit operating system is not "valid"
> >> > in their choice.
> >>
> >> If you have a CPU supporting AMD64, there is no valid reason for running
> >> 32-bit x86 OS on it. Period.
> >>
> >> > This seems more like hubris than wisdom to me.
> >>
> >> Or maybe it just shines a light on your ignorance.
> >>
> >> > Different users have different situations and different needs.
> >>
> >> Of course. And there will always be Slackware for you. Unless Patrick
> >> Volkerding gets hit by a bus.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Aryan Ameri
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> an/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
> >>
> >
> >
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