Proposal to drop 32-bit Ubuntu GNOME support after 18.04 LTS

[Awjin Ahn]

Sorry, misspoke, there has been no *decision* made yet

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:18 PM, Awjin Ahn <awjinahn at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Jeremy,
>
> Could you speak a little more to how the decision was made to drop 32-bit?
>
> Personally, I'm in favor of dropping, but think it will add to the
> discussion.
>
> Thanks,
> Awjin
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:02 PM, Aryan Ameri <public at aryanameri.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 28/3/17 11:08, John Gilmore wrote:
>> > The idea of dropping i386 support seems like a step backwards to me.
>>
>> > If an architecture needs to be dropped due to resource constraints,
>> > the obvious one to drop is amd64.
>>
>> No.
>>
>> > Every computer capable of running
>> > amd64 is also capable of running i386.  There are essentially no
>> > applications that inherently require a 64-bit address space
>>
>> First of all, as the announcement made clear, ASLR hugely benefits from
>> 64-bit address space.
>>
>> Secondly, the extra registers in AMD64 increase binary performance.
>>
>> Third, a lot of software benefits hugely from AVX and AVX2, from Blender
>> to handbrake to GIMP. But compiling software to i386, users would forgo
>> on 15 years worth of advancements and extensions to x86.
>>
>> Fourth: One of the biggest advancements in computer security in the last
>> 15 years has been the introduction of NX bit, which is not available in
>> 32-bit x86.
>>
>> Finally, a lot of us have more than 4GiB of RAM, and PAE is an ugly hack
>> that incurs extra performance penalty.
>>
>> > probably hundreds of
>> > millions, of computers can run i386 without trouble, but cannot run
>> > amd64.  (Yes, I do regularly use multiple computers, including an
>> > Atom-based netbook and a Pentium III server, that can't run amd64.)
>>
>> You use an Atom-based netbook and a Pentium III server with Ubuntu Gnome?!
>>
>> You run Gnome 3.2x on a Pentium III?!
>>
>> I'd like to see that in action.
>>
>> PS: You should buy a new atom CPU and replace that Pentium III with. It
>> costs $60 and pays for itself in your reduced electricity usage in less
>> than a year.
>>
>>
>> > Why
>> > is Ubuntu-GNOME throwing away this advantage that it has long held
>> > over Windows?
>>
>>
>> Engineering for the lowest common denominator has many extra costs.
>>
>> > For those who care about secure computing, the vendors who ship amd64
>> > architecture chips have polluted them with embedded processors that
>> > subvert the security of the system.
>>
>> >  Anyone who truly cares
>> > about having full control over their computing environment is stuck
>> > with buying older CPUs and motherboards.
>>
>> There are plenty of open architectures around where you have complete
>> control over the ISA and can inspect the the CPU. OpenPOWER and RISC-V
>> are two examples that come to my mind. I suggest you get yourself a
>> POWER 8 system from IBM, it probably still uses less power than your
>> Pentium III.
>>
>> >
>> > The main reason to prefer amd64 over i386, despite the cost in
>> > compatability, seems to be simple trendiness.  Processor chic.
>>
>> Oh wait. You pretend to care about security but have not heard of ASLR
>> or NX bit. Or maybe ASLR is also just "chic"?
>>
>> >
>> > Finally, there is the bold but false statement in the wiki page, "If
>> > you are running 64-bit capable hardware there are absolutely no valid
>> > reasons to be running a 32-bit operating system."
>> >
>> >   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support
>> >
>> > What I think the author meant is that THEY could not conceive of a
>> > reason to run a 32-bit operating system.  Or perhaps that every end
>> > user who has a reason to run a 32-bit operating system is not "valid"
>> > in their choice.
>>
>> If you have a CPU supporting AMD64, there is no valid reason for running
>> 32-bit x86 OS on it. Period.
>>
>> > This seems more like hubris than wisdom to me.
>>
>> Or maybe it just shines a light on your ignorance.
>>
>> > Different users have different situations and different needs.
>>
>> Of course. And there will always be Slackware for you. Unless Patrick
>> Volkerding gets hit by a bus.
>>
>> --
>> Aryan Ameri
>>
>>
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>
>