2c about the development of ubuntu

[Udo 'Robos' Puetz]

On Tue, 03.01.06, Ante Karamatic <ivoks at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > Even more so is it interesting that unstable is more stable than dapper -
> > supposed to be a release - soon.
> 
> Soon is 6 months? Ah, I see, you like Debian way of "soon" :) No,
> really, you should saw Breezy 3 months before release. You can't "see"
> how stable product will be if you don't know it's internal schedule.

Isn't dapper 6.04? That's less than 4 months in my counting.

> > Could you please name the programs you need that aren't in debian? For a
> > server? _That's_ interesting to me.
> 
> It's more releated to versnions. Here is an example - Samba. Apple did
> some nasty thing with it's OSX, making it unusable with Samba on Linux
> servers. Samba team did some changes and released version 3.0.20+. That
> version works with OSX (latest updates). But that version isn't in
> Debian stable and isn't planed to be released (like an update) for
> Debian stable. It will be part of the Etch, wich will come out - when?
> On the other side, it is part of Dapper that will be released in April.
> Sure, you can backport packages, but you can do that with every
> distribution. One thing you loose then is support.
> 
> Take a look at netatalk, for example. I fixed one bug there for Breezy
> (3-4 months ago). That bug still isn't fixed in Debian, and probably
> will never be :)

I really doubt that it will be "never". And I don't try to defend debian
here because I know it has lots of shortcomings too but - like I said before
- if I have a choice between an older app that does the job and a newer one
I rather stick with the older one - discarding unused features in the new
one I don't need and that only become a problem. It's all about what you
need or not. Debian is progressing too slowly and they recognized that and
try to act.
But on the other hand, if apple breaks something (that's how I understand
the above) I don't see why the oss world has to scurry around fixing this.

> > If you netcraft a server and see that is has an uptime of 400 days and an
> > apache 1.3.23 running (not actual numbers) and 1.3.33 is current don't
> > assume that this is an old apache - debian folks have probably tended to that!
> > I would rather run sarge than any ubuntu on a server.
> 
> First of all, server with 400 days of uptime is full of holes. On the
> other hand, I don't understand your conclusion.
> 
> But, what you have to understand is that Debian is good for you, and
> it's good for me, but it's not good for company. Yes, it's widly used on
> Universitys, but it's not so often in companys. This is cause of lack
> for support. This is my job, I administrate servers in companys. Real
> life example: solution needed for company XYZ works on Debian/Ubuntu,
> but doesn't on RedHat. They don't take Debian/Ubuntu, but they work out
> new solution for RedHat. Period. They aren't interested in amateur
> operating system (as they see it). Companys will rather pay for service
> then get it for free. That's "stoopid", but one very real reason is that
> you don't know when Debian will release it's new version. When they
> release it, they drop support for old version. You are sitting duck. You
> can't upgrade to newer version some server that holds life support in
> hospital in two days. You just can't.

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/12/05/strong_growth_for_debian.html
riiiight...

Cheers
Udo

> > > But, Ubuntu "Stable" (Breezy) has PHP5 too. And this one is much more
> > > stable than Debian Stable :)
> > 
> > The ":)" indicates that this is a joke, right?
> 
> Ah... typo. It should be "Breezy has PHP5 and is much more stable than
> Etch (testing)".
> 
> > > Stop looking on Dapper as on Debian Sid. These two aren't alike.
> > 
> > Uh, why not? The ubuntu folks just did a massive resync against that.
> 
> Not quite. Take a better look. Every package is hand picked and
> fixed/adopted (http://tinyurl.com/e4dpb). Beside that, there is
> different developmet model. There are too many differences. Trust me
> when I say it, these two aren't alike. (I'm a Debian user since '97.)
> 
> -- 
> Ante Karamatic | 0xD3BDA225 | 0x0A4A0161
> ivoks at grad.hr | ivoks at ubuntu.com | ivoks.blogspot.com
> "Tomorrow is my day off, so please stay off the powder!"



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-- 
Robos - 
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