2c about the development of ubuntu

Ante Karamatic ivoks at ubuntu.com
Tue Jan 3 06:44:17 GMT 2006

On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 02:33 +0100, Udo 'Robos' Puetz wrote:

> Even more so is it interesting that unstable is more stable than dapper -
> supposed to be a release - soon.

Soon is 6 months? Ah, I see, you like Debian way of "soon" :) No,
really, you should saw Breezy 3 months before release. You can't "see"
how stable product will be if you don't know it's internal schedule.

> Could you please name the programs you need that aren't in debian? For a
> server? _That's_ interesting to me.

It's more releated to versnions. Here is an example - Samba. Apple did
some nasty thing with it's OSX, making it unusable with Samba on Linux
servers. Samba team did some changes and released version 3.0.20+. That
version works with OSX (latest updates). But that version isn't in
Debian stable and isn't planed to be released (like an update) for
Debian stable. It will be part of the Etch, wich will come out - when?
On the other side, it is part of Dapper that will be released in April.
Sure, you can backport packages, but you can do that with every
distribution. One thing you loose then is support.

Take a look at netatalk, for example. I fixed one bug there for Breezy
(3-4 months ago). That bug still isn't fixed in Debian, and probably
will never be :)

> If you netcraft a server and see that is has an uptime of 400 days and an
> apache 1.3.23 running (not actual numbers) and 1.3.33 is current don't
> assume that this is an old apache - debian folks have probably tended to that!
> I would rather run sarge than any ubuntu on a server.

First of all, server with 400 days of uptime is full of holes. On the
other hand, I don't understand your conclusion.

But, what you have to understand is that Debian is good for you, and
it's good for me, but it's not good for company. Yes, it's widly used on
Universitys, but it's not so often in companys. This is cause of lack
for support. This is my job, I administrate servers in companys. Real
life example: solution needed for company XYZ works on Debian/Ubuntu,
but doesn't on RedHat. They don't take Debian/Ubuntu, but they work out
new solution for RedHat. Period. They aren't interested in amateur
operating system (as they see it). Companys will rather pay for service
then get it for free. That's "stoopid", but one very real reason is that
you don't know when Debian will release it's new version. When they
release it, they drop support for old version. You are sitting duck. You
can't upgrade to newer version some server that holds life support in
hospital in two days. You just can't.

> > But, Ubuntu "Stable" (Breezy) has PHP5 too. And this one is much more
> > stable than Debian Stable :)
> The ":)" indicates that this is a joke, right?

Ah... typo. It should be "Breezy has PHP5 and is much more stable than
Etch (testing)".

> > Stop looking on Dapper as on Debian Sid. These two aren't alike.
> Uh, why not? The ubuntu folks just did a massive resync against that.

Not quite. Take a better look. Every package is hand picked and
fixed/adopted (http://tinyurl.com/e4dpb). Beside that, there is
different developmet model. There are too many differences. Trust me
when I say it, these two aren't alike. (I'm a Debian user since '97.)

Ante Karamatic | 0xD3BDA225 | 0x0A4A0161
ivoks at grad.hr | ivoks at ubuntu.com | ivoks.blogspot.com
"Tomorrow is my day off, so please stay off the powder!"
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