Midnight Commander in 8.10

Felix Miata mrmazda at ij.net
Wed Oct 29 16:08:11 UTC 2008


On 2008/10/29 17:18 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed:

> Felix Miata wrote:

>>> I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I
>>> perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with
>>> Nautilus.

>> How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and
>> never will need to help someone else with broken X.

> I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. Firstly, there's not so
> much argument about how useful mc is. mc powerful and useful to many.
> I've been using it for quite a few things since 1999.

I use "it" routinely, since 1986, when I first discovered NC, instead of
using a bunch of other things I don't need to have or learn precisely because
I have "it". Knowing how to use OFMs has obviated more than token need to
learn tools non-OFM bash users take for granted, and GUI users have no
knowledge of or interest in.

> What you have to realise is that the space on the Ubuntu installation
> disc is very, very limited.

This is ancient history that comes up every time some again asks to have it
included by default. Those who don't use an OFM cannot appreciate the
extraordinary value of an OFM. Thus, the tyranny of the majority rules
neither mc nor any other OFM can live on a live buntu CD. Klaus Knopper knows
its value, which makes his space-limited live CDs the live Linux media of
choice for those in the know.

> You're hitting quite hard on that point and I'm not quite sure
> how mc would make it easier for users to fix an X server.

Automatic tools for fixing X are nice when they work, but it's often the case
that various and sundry things that a minor text edit would fix are
impossible to fix with a fancy tool. Similar for networking. Though you may
have X working, a telephone fix is often much easier navigating to a text
file and changing a character or three than explaining how to grunge through
yet another X with different menus and app names than the last.

> That's what
> things like the failsafe X session are for, unless you're refering to
> mcedit being a more intuitive editor for new users?

It's rare for any tool to do more than a few things well, if even more than
one. OFMs are such exceptions. The built-in FTP for fetching broken packages
is easy to use, as that process is the same as fetching a file on a local
filesystem, which is just as easy as in a GUI, having the advantage of a GUI
in visually depicting the relationship of files and directories to each
other, and making navigation a breeze. That an intuitive text editor is built
in goes without saying. A couple of keystrokes, and you have an in place copy
of the original, after which you edit and test, and copy the original back if
it didn't help, with another very few keystrokes, quite unlike cp/mv/vi, etc.

Helping a user in need over the phone to fix things like X or networking is
easier if you can limit to one easy to use tool that requires a lot fewer
steps to accomplish a difficult task. When you do it in mc you've taught a
user to help himself, but that learning is only later useful in an
environment that includes that tool.

Really, it's a total waste of time to discuss OFMs with OFM non-users. People
can't get what they're about if they don't use them. Only with routine use
can anyone grasp just how valuable they really are, and now indispensable
they are to those few who do depend on them.
-- 
"Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and
slow to become angry."		James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/




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