Midnight Commander in 8.10

Henrik Johansson dahankzter at gmail.com
Wed Oct 29 16:38:38 UTC 2008


I am sorry to but in like this but this seems like a non-issue really or
have i missed the point entirely?

You want mc on the CD since you have neither X nor a working network? I
mean 'sudo apt-get install mc' is not really hard to type right?

There are several potential problems with people not having sufficient
rights etc to install and live-cd only servers can of course be a hassle
but is it really such a big problem to either install mc or learn/teach
a few bash cmds and a few moves in another editor?

Is it really on the 8.04 CD? I had to install it manually. 

As for the value of OFM, I would like to emphasize the value power of
bash. You can't beat the bash.

For the record I would just like to say that i wouldn't mind having mc
included, I kind of like it so if there is space let's put it in!

/ Henrik

ons 2008-10-29 klockan 12:08 -0400 skrev Felix Miata:
> On 2008/10/29 17:18 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed:
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> >>> I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I
> >>> perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with
> >>> Nautilus.
> >> How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and
> >> never will need to help someone else with broken X.
> > I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. Firstly, there's not so
> > much argument about how useful mc is. mc powerful and useful to many.
> > I've been using it for quite a few things since 1999.
> I use "it" routinely, since 1986, when I first discovered NC, instead of
> using a bunch of other things I don't need to have or learn precisely because
> I have "it". Knowing how to use OFMs has obviated more than token need to
> learn tools non-OFM bash users take for granted, and GUI users have no
> knowledge of or interest in.
> > What you have to realise is that the space on the Ubuntu installation
> > disc is very, very limited.
> This is ancient history that comes up every time some again asks to have it
> included by default. Those who don't use an OFM cannot appreciate the
> extraordinary value of an OFM. Thus, the tyranny of the majority rules
> neither mc nor any other OFM can live on a live buntu CD. Klaus Knopper knows
> its value, which makes his space-limited live CDs the live Linux media of
> choice for those in the know.
> > You're hitting quite hard on that point and I'm not quite sure
> > how mc would make it easier for users to fix an X server.
> Automatic tools for fixing X are nice when they work, but it's often the case
> that various and sundry things that a minor text edit would fix are
> impossible to fix with a fancy tool. Similar for networking. Though you may
> have X working, a telephone fix is often much easier navigating to a text
> file and changing a character or three than explaining how to grunge through
> yet another X with different menus and app names than the last.
> > That's what
> > things like the failsafe X session are for, unless you're refering to
> > mcedit being a more intuitive editor for new users?
> It's rare for any tool to do more than a few things well, if even more than
> one. OFMs are such exceptions. The built-in FTP for fetching broken packages
> is easy to use, as that process is the same as fetching a file on a local
> filesystem, which is just as easy as in a GUI, having the advantage of a GUI
> in visually depicting the relationship of files and directories to each
> other, and making navigation a breeze. That an intuitive text editor is built
> in goes without saying. A couple of keystrokes, and you have an in place copy
> of the original, after which you edit and test, and copy the original back if
> it didn't help, with another very few keystrokes, quite unlike cp/mv/vi, etc.
> Helping a user in need over the phone to fix things like X or networking is
> easier if you can limit to one easy to use tool that requires a lot fewer
> steps to accomplish a difficult task. When you do it in mc you've taught a
> user to help himself, but that learning is only later useful in an
> environment that includes that tool.
> Really, it's a total waste of time to discuss OFMs with OFM non-users. People
> can't get what they're about if they don't use them. Only with routine use
> can anyone grasp just how valuable they really are, and now indispensable
> they are to those few who do depend on them.
> -- 
> "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and
> slow to become angry."		James 1:19 NIV
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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