Replace Shotwell (was F-Spot) with Solang?

Thu May 20 08:38:33 BST 2010

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 03:04, Robert Ancell
<robert.ancell at canonical.com> wrote:
> Some points that were in favour of Shotwell:
> - Already packaged in Ubuntu Universe (i.e. it has good user exposure)

I don't really consider this to make it a better application at all.

> - Full-time developer resource (Yorba)

Shotwell has the slight advantage there, but Solang has been
developing very rapidly

> - Very fast load and browsing speed

I have no idea how Shotwell and Solang compare on that.

> Shotwell does not have all the functionality we want before it will replace
> F-Spot, but we are tracking the missing features here:
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-shotwell
> These features will probably be complete by Shotwell 0.7 (in time for
> Maverick).
>
> Some points about Solang:
> - Solang requires tracker to be installed by default and currently it
> isn't.  I believe we don't use tracker currently due to performance
> concerns.

I haven't heard that before but that's an interesting concern. Very legitimate

> - There was no-one pushing Solang in the UDS session

It's sad that this is the case and that Solang missed out on being
able to gain this position just because of that. I think more people
(apparently who were not at UDS) seem to be interested in Solang. It
was the first app mentioned on the default app blueprint for maverick:
https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-desktop-application-selection

"[amano 2010-05-05]
Solang is a C++ photo editor that does't use a complicated Database
for importing and exporting and should be more intuitive for new
users. I might try to create a discspace vs. RAM usage vs. feature vs.
usability overview by the weekend. I hate the tendency of F-Spot to
duplicate pictures on your harddisk (original location, ~/Photo folder
and inside the database as well). If there are thousands of pictures
to be imported, you might easily run out of disk space. And database
corruptions/confusions are not impossible as well.

For now I can offer this video review of the Vala based Shotwell:
http://linuxfilesystem.com/uncategorized/shotwell-photo-manager-for-gnome-linux-mint-8.
It is database driven and doesn't recognize if you added new files to
one of your photo folders (same for F-Spot). Thus new photos have to
imported manually which can be tiresome. The C++ based Solang uses
Tracker 0.8 to check the photo folders and SPARQL is used to gain
access to the meta information about the photos. This approach looks
perfectly sane but with its current version 0.4.1 it lacks the option
to crop and resize files
(http://git.gnome.org/browse/solang/tree/TODO?id=SOLANG_0_4_1) which
is rather a "must have" since the removal of the GIMP (given that the
simple-image-management blueprint doesn't bring to life a 'simple
scan' for image editing). On the other hand it is developed at a rapid
pace and those options might be included by the maverick feature
freeze."

> - No Lucid package
> - Don't seem to be able to install the dependencies in Lucid to build Solang

Sad but true. This could be worked on. I don't think this is a point
against it as an application though. It was in Karmic, something went
wrong when Lucid came around i guess.

> I went into this session expecting to push the "wait and see" approach but
> was swayed by the feedback about Shotwell and the frustration with F-Spot.

Normally, i wouldn't go for the wait and see approach but i'm not
convinced Shotwell is a better choice over Solang. If it wasn't even
looked at during UDS, i think it deserves the same fair chance as
well. Is it too late for to be considered more seriously? If Solang
proved itself in time for Maverick +1 i'm afraid it would be left out
simply because we've already changed the default once recently.

>
> On 20/05/10 15:58, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
>
> I'm forwarding this to the ubuntu-desktop list to see if they can
> point out why Shotwell was chosen over Solang, and whether it is too
> late to change this decision or postpone the change until Maverick+1
>
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 17:28, Laco Gubík <lacogubik at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to see this discussion by myself, but I cannot find.
> Maybe it will appear here [1] in following days.
> In terms off holding it until Maverick+1, I think that Canonical
> considers non-LTS releases more like development releases, where they
> do not mind if something is suboptimal. So they prefer to do changes
> striaght after LTS release, so there is time to polish it until next
> LTS. (On the other hand we have seen changes with significant impact
> also in LTS, so one never know.).
>
> Regards
>
> Laco
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 13:28, Danny Piccirillo
> <danny.piccirillo at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
>
> 2010/5/15 Marco Laverdière <marco.laverdiere at gmail.com>:
>
>
>
>
> Also, there were specific reasons as to why Shotwell isn't ready, but
> for Solang it was just, yeah this isn't ready either. What
> specifically would you like to see in Solang for it to be considered
> ready?
>
>
>  For me, wheher it is Solang (hypothetically) or Shotwell (as announced), a
> decent replacement for F-Spot should provide the following:
>
> - continuity for the regular Ubuntu/F-Spot user, i.e. ability to import
> F-Spot tags easily, whether from F-Spot database or from pictures XMP
> embedded metadata (ideally, F-Spot tag hierarchy should also be preserved,
> i.e. for people, place, event. etc.);
>
>
> This would be ideal, but i don't see this happning in time for
> Maverick. If people see this as a requirement it might be better to
> hold off until Maverick +1
>
>
>
> -beign able to embed tags in file, preferably in XMP or otherwise, in IPTC;
>
>
> I believe this is possible, but someone should verify
>
>
>
> - same (or almost) set of basic editing functions than F-Spot;
>
>
> F-Spot needed editing capabilities added if i remember correctly,
> while this has been part of the solang vision from the beginning.
>
>
>
> - same level of integration with other graphics/imaging  Ubuntu/Gnome apps,
> like with Gimp and Eye of GNOME (F-Spot allows the user to switch nicely to
> Gimp for advanced editing; EOG allows the user to open the viewed picture
> with F-Spot, etc.).
>
>
> For starters, Solang uses Tracker. From amano on
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-desktop-application-selection
>
> "Solang is a C++ photo editor that does't use a complicated Database
> for importing and exporting and should be more intuitive for new
> users. I might try to create a discspace vs. RAM usage vs. feature vs.
> usability overview by the weekend. I hate the tendency of F-Spot to
> duplicate pictures on your harddisk (original location, ~/Photo folder
> and inside the database as well). If there are thousands of pictures
> to be imported, you might easily run out of disk space. And database
> corruptions/confusions are not impossible as well.
>
> For now I can offer this video review of the Vala based Shotwell:
> http://linuxfilesystem.com/uncategorized/shotwell-photo-manager-for-gnome-linux-mint-8.
> It is database driven and doesn't recognize if you added new files to
> one of your photo folders (same for F-Spot). Thus new photos have to
> imported manually which can be tiresome. The C++ based Solang uses
> Tracker 0.8 to check the photo folders and SPARQL is used to gain
> access to the meta information about the photos. This approach looks
> perfectly sane but with its current version 0.4.1 it lacks the option
> to crop and resize files
> (http://git.gnome.org/browse/solang/tree/TODO?id=SOLANG_0_4_1) which
> is rather a "must have" since the removal of the GIMP (given that the
> simple-image-management blueprint doesn't bring to life a 'simple
> scan' for image editing). On the other hand it is developed at a rapid
> pace and those options might be included by the maverick feature
> freeze. To get a sensible decision in favor of Solang the authors
> should be contaced first. Shotwell on the other hand is not too
> different from F-Spot but is developed faster and performs better than
> the current default."
>
>
>
> In other words, let's avoid a regression here...
>
>
> Agreed. I say we should hold off the change until Maverick +1 and plan
> on working to make Solang a good fit.
>
> --
> .danny
>
> ☮♥Ⓐ - http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo
> Every (in)decision matters.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-desktop mailing list
> ubuntu-desktop at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
>
>

-- 
.danny

☮♥Ⓐ - http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo
Every (in)decision matters.