My view on governance and all the allied activities

[Aveem Ashfaq]

Dear Nathan,

On 13 December 2014 at 12:32, Nathan Haines <nhaines at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2014 08:33 PM, Aveem Ashfaq wrote:
>
>  I am sorry that I have not been active in the past weeks when the crux
>> of this issue was being spoken about. I had my end semester exams then.
>> I did not watch the hangouts session. I will be watching it shortly.
>> Here are my views on various things that can better Ubuntu. It was too
>> long. I had to write a blog.
>>
>
> Thank you for putting down your thoughts, Aveem.  I read the blog post,
> and I can see that you spent a lot of time on it.  I see a pattern forming
> and I find it very concerning.
>
> There are a lot of calls for action and changes, but it's clear you only
> have a surface level understanding  of the way various part of Ubuntu
> works.  And this is a problem, because suggestions start to look like "I'm
> not a part of your community but everything you're doing is wrong and you
> should take my advice instead."
>
>
I'm going to take a single example and dissect it before going a little
> broader.  I want you to know that I'm choosing a single topic to go very in
> depth on because I want to examine of the assumptions behind your point.
> I'm not attacking you but I want to take a deep look to illustrate why it's
> important to understand both sides of a topic that you dismiss pretty
> quickly.
>
>
By all means attack me constructively. It is good to see someone warm up.
Those superficial diplomatic responses usually take the matters and run in
tangents to the point.


> Declining to participate on the mailing list and trying to take discussion
> to your blog is one example.  Mailing lists are time-proven methods of
> communicating with other people.  Here are some advantages of mailing lists:
>
> * Anyone can join a list on a specific topic and become involved.
> * Ubuntu mailing lists are public and all messages are archived and
> available online.
> * These archives are searchable and show up in Google results.
> * All replies are very clearly threaded and the relationship to other
> posts are clear.
> * Everyone has an email client and is automatically notified of new
> messages in one place without having to remember to check some random
> website and try to remember the last message he read.
> * At any time for the rest of human existence, someone can return to the
> mailing list archives in one place and see what discussion occurred and
> when.  It's not scattered over hundreds of undocumented web pages and blogs.
>
> Mailing lists also predate web forums by what I assume is 3 decades, but
> in any case, web-based message boards have only been around for about 19 or
> 20 years and I still dislike them.
>
>
Point noted. I can warm up to mailing lists.


> There are two problems.  One is that there is a massive amount of
> collaboration and development going on, and you're chastising us because
> it's not happening where you want.  But it's working fantastically for
> those who are doing a lot of the work presently.
>

I know that and I respect that developers do not want to leave their
favorite places. Besides, it is not productive. So, I wanted to introduce
the new comers to the playground of the developers. That is the reason why
I have Project UbuntuNewbie.


>
> The other problem is that the way things "have always been done" might be
> able to be improved in some cases, or made more accessible.  But that's not
> going to happen by throwing existing infrastructure out.
>
>
Point noted. I will have to think about it. Tentatively, I can suggest that
an app be made which kind of gives updates and instructions.


> I'm also concerned that you identify only the three groups to consider:
>
> 1) People who have never used Ubuntu or heard of it.
> 2) People who are functionally expert Ubuntu users.
> 3) Programmers.
>
> First of all, there is no reason to expect that most users should
> contribute.  Many are happy to use computers as tools, and that's fine.
> But considering only these three categories of users leaves out novice and
> intermediate users, plus every contributor who isn't programming. It's a
> huge oversight, and disenfranchises a lot of contributors.
>
>
Many people who use Ubuntu are actually excited about being part of this
community. Though I would still agree that there is absolutely no reason to
expect that everyone would join hands in contributing.

When I say Programmers, I mean people who have been in this ecosystem for
so long that they know all about it and how it functions. We are just
puzzled by the scattered places where many new things are happening. Hence
the craving for an app.


> You keep suggesting sweeping changes across the entire project, but you're
> not really identifying actual problems, or explaining *why* they are
> problems, and often are not identifying solutions or explaining why they
> are better solutions than what's out there.  I think it would probably be a
> lot more effective if you picked some small part or aspect of the Ubuntu
> community you want to change and spend some time getting to know how it
> *really* works.  It's good for us to know how things appear to new users
> but that's not always enough to change things.
>
>
Thank you for pointing out to me. I never realized that I never mentioned
the problems. I will be making a post sometime later in the night when I
will describe my journey so that you can better understand why i propose
these changes.


> Then, remembering how things appeared and what the challenges were to a
> newcomer, and understanding how things are actually working right now for
> hundreds of contributors, you can start to suggest changes that are both
> founded in how the project really works and that will introduce new users
> and familiarize themselves with how contribution works.  If no one uses web
> forums to collaborate, then building a web forum won't make collaboration
> suddenly happen there.  It'll just give interested new users a place to
> gather that is a ghost town.
>
> For example, Ubuntu has web forums, and we also have a Discourse forum.
> Why aren't you leading any efforts there instead of proposing new
> resources?  Because you're not familiar with the existing ones, I imagine.
>
>
Yup. Don't know about them. That is the reason why I pointed out that make
me a blueprint or a work item in launchpad and I will explore it. I am sure
I told you (community team) that. When I am familiar with them, then I can
create my introduction videos.


> So that's just taking one of your points (mailing lists are stupid) and
> saying that no, they're a very practical technology that had a lot of very
> solid features that led to their being chosen.
>
> And while you are upset about multiple websites, a single Ubuntu One
> account logs you into the Ubuntu Forums, Launchpad, and Ask Ubuntu.  The
> Google+ communities are completely unofficial and used more for
> announcements.  It's the IRC channels and mailing lists which are the
> hotbeds of activity.
>
> To sum up, the reason that changes are complicated is that Linux
> development stretches back to 1991, GNU userspace development stretches
> back to 1984, and that's rooted in computer science going back to the mid
> 60s.  It can be quite complex, and this is not a failing of Ubuntu
> contributors.  It's a product of working on an incredibly sophisticated
> operating system.
>
> And I am excited that you are interested in helping us to make things
> easier for new users to approach.  I hope that as you gain experience
> working with other collaborators that you're able to help shine a light on
> areas that can be improved.
>
>
I will be creating a new post in the community team mailing list in which I
will describe every step of my journey so that you may understand.

And on that, a small note though. I would have silently made the videos. I
just thought that since it would enhance the whole ubuntu participation,
people would say, here let me help you. I will create you the exhaustive
list of sites available. Have fun exploring and making videos. Instead, I
just got this response with people saying yay. some guy is interested. Go
on. Do whatever you want to do.

I will be reposting everything a probably be creating an Ubuntu wiki page
so that the people who missed the instructions or any part of the project
can know about it.

-- 
Aveem Ashfaq
B.Tech, Mechanical Engineering,
NIT, Nagpur.
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