[Ubuntu-ch] Would like to become involved in Swiss Ubuntu Group

Didier Raboud didier at raboud.com
Jeu 25 Jan 12:18:20 GMT 2007


Le jeudi 25 janvier 2007 12:43, Tormod Volden a écrit :
> On 1/25/07, Didier Raboud <didier at raboud.com> wrote:
> > Well... The problem is not the philosophical part, it's the technical
> > one. I we could have a mailing list and a translatable website with a
> > fingersnap, it would be fine!
>
> Thanks for your answer, Didier!
> A wiki is already an easily translatable website. If non-members can
> edit it, this is already fine, I guess.

Non-"VIP-Members" can edit it, but you have to be registered (authentified).

> > OK, the mailing-list is maybe not that hard, but it should be observed
> > that we ever have: wiki, forum, IRC, Jabber, it's pretty enough for
> > getting help.
> >
> > But I will add a note on the wiki thereabout to ensure this will be
> > discussed during the meeting.
>
> Thanks.

This is now done with a link to that discussion [0].

> > > 2. The membership fee is a threshold that puts people off, even if
> > > it's an symbolical sum. Are you obliged (as a legal association) to
> > > demand a fee?
> >
> > Well... It depends on our "statuts", but per definition, to have the
> > right to vote, one should be a member, and you can be a member only if
> > you pay the subscription fee, "normally". But this is meant for the
> > official part.
> >
> > But you have to note that the subscription fee is _absolutely_ not
> > necessary for participation in every sector of SL.org. You just have to
> > subscribe to the forum to be "participating member". But if you _want_ to
> > join the "paying members" (those who have the right to vote in IRL
> > assemblies), you can, by paying the subscription fee.
> >
> > This is what makes us different from the GULL. Everyone can participate,
> > help, write tutorials and so on the wiki, just by e-inscription on the
> > forum. But to be part of the decision process IRL, you have to be member
> > of the association, by paying the subscription fee.
>
> So I understand this like you can participate for free, but you can
> also "buy" voting rights. I don't know what GULL is, but I guess it is
> another (even more closed) linux association.

The GULL [1] is an association where you have to pay your subscription fee for 
posting to their mailing-lists, even if everyone can read it. They were 
aiming professionnal and SL.org aims the persons. I think we complement 
ourselves.

> > > Is it otherwise necessary? I read that the main reason
> > > is the domain hosting. How much is that? (I only saw 45 CHF for last
> > > year). I think you can find sponsors that will do or finance this for
> > > you. I am willing to donate myself, if you drop that member fee. Lots
> > > of people like free beer, and many are willing to give free beer as
> > > well :)
> >
> > As explained above... And if you have too much beer, I'm willing to help!
>
> You didn't explain why you have to demand a member fee.

Right...

> Why can't you offer membership without payment? I suggest you discuss
> alternatives for financing the web hosting /other costs at your general
> assembly. 
>
> Or is it because it will make members feel better when they pay for
> something exclusive that they wouldn't get otherwise? Like a marketing
> thing?

It's nothing marketing or stuff like that... The subscription is not "that 
high" (20 CHF => ~13.50 €), it's not meant to be "elitist".

Without being member, you can participate in every aspect of SL.org. Sl.org is 
meant to be "newbie friendly" and aims everyone who could be interested in 
Linux in (the french-speaking part of) Switzerland.

You certainly know that hosting a website costs. These costs have to be paid, 
and I personally do not want this service to be paid by publicity. The 
philosophy is : It costs, one have to pay for it. Let us pay for it ! You can 
USE it if you want and we encourage you to do so, but we want to pay for it.

It allows the association to have funds to build projects that costs too. You 
can't print flyers or burn CD's for free or only by hoping some big entity 
(Canonical ?) will pay for it.

> I guess it's just the habitual thing for an association to collect
> fees to easily fund minor expenses (Participation A Frais). But I
> think it works negatively and it's time to reconsider.

I don't think so. 

> (If you want to grow and prosper, that is). Having a donation bucket at
> meetings (like in the church) is an alternative with less administrative
> overhead.

The goal of the association was to have an organisation instead of a single 
person. It means "long-term", it means "reliability", it means "democracy" 
(OK, with the subscription fee, it's maybe a little biaised, but still).

> Selling CDs at meetings is another way, or even better, to avoid
> "selling", give away CDs with a strong encouragement to donate to the
> bucket. You can still do everything totally transparent so that nobody
> will question what happens to their money.

Nobody _is_ questionning, for the single reason that the association makes its 
trades public. Any member can attend the annual conference, read budget and 
counts (comptes), nothing is hidden at all [2].

We, as an distro-independant website, have no sustain from anyone, the 
webhosting we use has to be paid. Don't forget Ubuntu-CH mailing-list runs on 
Canonical servers... SL.org doesn't.

> > Didier Raboud, aka OdyX
> >
> > > PS. will there be a SwissLinux stand at OpenExpo?
> >
> > Hasn't been spoken yet...
>
> Hope to see you there! Hopefully we can do things together and reap
> synergies from all the different linux/free software/etc groups in
> Switzerland and across borders.

Certainly ! But I certainly won't be there, I have exams I have to attend. But 
I'm adding that topic for the meeting too.

> There are maybe too many overlapping groups around? I have had some ideas
> for Ubuntu activities that might fit well into SwissLinux activities as
> well. The great thing about the Ubuntu SwissTeam is that it is fully open to
> anyone without any  obligations, and we just _do_ things without the
> overhead and  administration of an association.

As we do! The association is no overhead at all, it's just at leaset once a 
year (legally), and IRL meetings _if wanted-.

> But of course, sometimes it is good to have a formal, legal association in
> the back or fronting us. 

Look at Ubuntu-fr.org ... They made exactly the same as we are doing, apart 
that nobody can become member.

The association allows us to ensure the reliability and durability of SL.org, 
ensure that succession is taken, ensure that servers/hosting are paid. The 
difference between U-fr.org and us is that they rely on punctual donations, 
as we do rely on regular members. Frontend is different for same background 
daemon. :-)


> Tormod


Didier

[0] http://wiki.swisslinux.org/preparation/ag2007#ordre_du_jour
[1] http://www.linux-gull.ch/gull
"Le GULL est l'association qui regroupe les utilisateurs de GNU/Linux et des 
Logiciels Libres de la région lémanique"
[2] http://wiki.swisslinux.org/association/comptes
-- 
5174 DF20 B82E 613D C14A A92B C16D 679C E9A2 78F0
-------------- section suivante --------------
Une pièce jointe non texte a été nettoyée...
Nom: non disponible
Type: application/pgp-signature
Taille: 189 octets
Desc: non disponible
Url: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-ch/attachments/20070125/0b64a65b/attachment.pgp 


Plus d'informations sur la liste de diffusion Ubuntu-ch