Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?

"Stéphane S. Somé" stephanesome at googlemail.com
Tue Jun 24 21:02:03 UTC 2008


Setting up a basic web server is not that hard under Ubuntu either. The 
help section describes pretty well how to do it. But you have some 
specific needs that go beyond what a basic server can offer. I seriously 
doubt anyone could set up something like a LAMP server with 
authentication under Mac without having to read anything.

geo wrote:
>
> Actually, for Mac users, Macintosh computers come preconfigured so you 
> can set up a Webserver within OS X. I know this because before Ubuntu 
> I was a Mac user (until the old Mac broke down and I couldn't afford 
> to replace it).
>
>  
>
> The level of sophistication which other computer users on other 
> platforms already enjoy (Mac, Windows) is what Ubuntu will have to 
> contend with. And yes many people who use Macs host a family website 
> or something from their home computer.
>
>  
>
> I want to see Ubuntu succeed as a good alternative because it's a very 
> nice system. But these old Administrative throwbacks are a major 
> obstacle yet unresolved in my experience.
>
>  
>
> Blaming the client for the shortcomings of the software or 
> installation process isn't productive - if the client cannot use the 
> software, you have an upset and angry client and customer on your 
> hands and that hurts the name of the product.
>
>  
>
> Windows has come a long way in this but Windows has so much bloat and 
> hardware requirements......it's not sensible for many to continue on 
> the software merry-go-round.
>
>  
>
> I want Ubuntu to succeed and if a client has criticism, it's important 
> to view it as an opportunity to make something even better. After all, 
> if the client has gone through the trouble to set things up and try it 
> and get to the point of frustration, they obviously want the software 
> to work, right?
>
>  
>
> I want the software to work and if this can be resolved, it will only 
> mean success for future users who will never acquire the specialized 
> knowledge that only system admins have today.
>
>  
>
> Just my 2 cents worth. peace,
>
> geo
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/24/08, "Stéphane S. Somé" 
> /<stephanesome at googlemail.com>/* wrote:
>
>     From: "Stéphane S. Somé" <stephanesome at googlemail.com>
>     Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
>     To: yaktur at yahoo.com
>     Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:52 AM
>
>     The fact is, what you are trying to do is not the kind of stuff a 
>     typical end user would try on any OS and expect a point and click type 
>     of behavior. There is a little bit of learning involved here and 
>     although the documentation is not perfect, it is a good start. It is a 
>     bit like getting a large furniture at IKEA and wanting to put it 
>     together without looking at the manual. That would be certainly be 
>     frustrating.
>
>     geo wrote:
>     >
>     > Consider the frustration:
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > The manual is 52 pages long,  and in the manual it says to read it 
>     > completely before commencing installtion - I've already been wasting 
>     > days on trying to figure out software (human-made software, created by 
>     > humans) which is in a language which makes no sense at all. It seems 
>     > as if it's deliberately over-complicated.
>     >
>     > Even last night, I blew 2 hours just catching up on these computer 
>     > e-mails and trying to mess with Joomla - and at the end of the day 
>     > it's still just a puddle of bits and bytes on my hard drive - and it 
>     > still doesn't work. :(
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > I'm even wasting time at work now catching up on this stuff. I come in
>
>     > early so I can read and respond - yet the software will still not even 
>     > install.
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > My wife doesn't understand why this takes so long and she waits for me
>
>     > very patiently for these weeks I've been trying to get straight 
>     > answers in English and just set up something so they can use it at the 
>     > farm too.
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > For all of the so-called "advancement" it still seems hopelessly
>
>     > backwards and overly-complicated, making people work even harder when 
>     > it's supposed to help people work smarter. Ubuntu as a computer 
>     > environment is good and the family likes it!! It's swift, speedy and 
>     > runs better than Windows anyday!
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > But I'm not impressed with this website PHP, htaccess, MySQL, Joomla 
>     > and other stuff........and there really ought to be a better way for 
>     > "Open Source" stuff to work so regular people can use it to be 
>     > productive and not have to take a university course in this stuff just 
>     > to even understand the manual.
>     >
>     >  
>     >
>     > The bottom line? I still can't get Joomla to install - and I don't
>
>     > have hours and $$ to blow on this. I just need it to work right the 
>     > first time when I run the installer - but the installer won't even 
>     > run. How good can that be? Imagine!
>     >
>     > --- On *Mon, 6/23/08, "Stéphane S. Somé" 
>     > /<stephanesome at googlemail.com>/* wrote:
>     >
>     >     From: "Stéphane S. Somé"
>     <stephanesome at googlemail.com>
>     >     Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
>     >     To: yaktur at yahoo.com, "The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community"
>     >     <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
>     >     Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 11:20 PM
>     >
>     >     Did you have a look at the install manual ?
>     >
>     >     http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/docman/?subdir=1
>     >
>     >
>     >     geo wrote:
>     >     > I don't have a "search" in my toolbar in Ubuntu so
>     I'm
>     >     not sure what 
>     >     > that refers to.
>     >     >
>     >     > I did go to the Joomla website and download the installer, un-ZIP
>     it 
>     >     > and then......when I double-click on INSTALL.php, Firefox opens
>     it.
>     >     >
>     >     > And re-opens, and re-reopens......in other words, it doesn't
>     install -
>     >
>     >     > it just wastes my time.
>     >     >
>     >     > I don't mind books - in fact I prefer books - I'm very
>     much a 
>     >     > book-hound! I have an old british history book from 1704 and when
>     the 
>     >     > Antique Roadshow hit Toronto back in 98, they verified it's 
>     >     > authenticity for me!
>     >     >
>     >     > But these days I have no money.....after feeding the kids, paying
>     the 
>     >     > mortgage, the bills, insurance, gas, etc.....you know.....and our
>
>     >     > local library has diddly-squat on computers.
>     >     >
>     >     > So when I ask on the https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
>     website, the 
>     >     > majority of my answers come back from hard-core users, or maybe
>     worse 
>     >     > - programmers! Not very useful, sadly.
>     >     >
>     >     > I don't get paid unless I produce - and I don't have the
>     luxury of
>     >
>     >     > money or time to be able to afford to go to courses or buy books
>     on 
>     >     > this stuff. Heck, just being able to afford gas these days is a 
>     >     > challenge enough!
>     >     >
>     >     > Is it too much to ask to get answers that are good for
>     "regular"
>     >     folks 
>     >     > or professionals? I'm never going to learn all of this
>     configuration 
>     >     > language, I just need it to work so I can set it up over at the
>     farm 
>     >     > for the mushroom business as well as for my own personal stuff
>     hosted 
>     >     > from my computer at home.
>     >     >
>     >     > Thanks,
>     >     > geo
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >     Hi:
>     >     >
>     >     >     You don't have to go through the whole Synaptic list, in
>     the tool
>     >     bar is
>     >     >     "search", then you type in Joomla, and if you had
>     updated
>     >     the list
>     >     >     with
>     >     >     "reload", then you might find things in minutes. It
>     will do
>     >     a
>     >     >      search
>     >     >     for
>     >     >     what you are looking for. I'm not sure what Joomla is,
>     and
>     >     don't have
>     >     >     the time right now to find out! 
>     >     >
>     >     >     There is quite a bit of stuff there in the Synaptic List, but
>     it is
>     >     >     Categorized too, so scroll down the list of Categories, and
>     then the
>     >     >     list is not so big. If you use the "ALL" list, it
>     is Very
>     >     Big!
>     >     >
>     >     >     Things can get broken when you start to install stuff, from
>     outside
>     >     the
>     >     >     "list". 
>     >     >
>     >     >     I used to be a Windblows person too, but now I don't use
>     Winders
>     >     any
>     >     >     more! There was always too much pressure to buy a new
>     computer every
>     >     >     week, or a new operating system, when the next version of a
>     game
>     >     >     demanded it! There were always all kinds of Mal-ware
>     inserted, and
>     >     >     Vulnerabilities that were not patched fast enough. Always all
>     kinds of
>     >     >     Panic Attacks about the New Virus, starting up. A new
>     computer would
>     >     >     start acting very slow, very fast with all the Patches on top
>     of
>     >     Patches
>     >     >     on top of Patches, on top of
>     >     >      Patches. You don't want Linux to be like
>     >     >     that do you? ;-) 
>     >     >
>     >     >     There are a few Good Books you can get on Ubuntu, and even
>     quite a
>     >     list
>     >     >     of Tutorial Web sites, if Books are not you Cuppa tea. 
>     >     >
>     >     >     Alfred!
>     >     >     -----Original Message-----
>     >     >     From: geo <yaktur at yahoo.com>
>     >     >     Reply-To: yaktur at yahoo.com, The Canadian Ubuntu Users
>     Community
>     >     >     <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
>     >     >     To: Mark W. Law <bear at wightman.ca>
>     >     >     Cc: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
>     >     >     Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
>     >     >     Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
>     >     >     Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199
>     >     >
>     >     >     Hi
>     >     >
>     >     >     I finally found something on how to install Joomla. But it
>     only
>     >     confirms
>     >     >     my problem.
>     >     >
>     >     >     I do have PHP5 and MySql installed (by the Synaptic.....by
>     golly
>     >     there's
>     >     >     too much to choose from, this list should be pared down for
>     us
>     >     non-Linux
>     >     >     folk! It's WAY too much useless information to pick and
>     guess
>     >     through).
>     >     >
>     >     >     I've restarted the
>     >     >      computer to make sure whatever got installed would be
>     >     >     "done" - typical Windows thing but what else can
>     you do!
>     >     >
>     >     >     I still cannot install Joomla, I still get the same
>     repetition of what
>     >     >     to do with PHP files, open with Firefox or Save to disk. I
>     click Open
>     >     >     and it just repeats.
>     >     >
>     >     >     How come these things aren't geared for ex-Windows users?
>     >     Don't the
>     >     >     people at Ubuntu realize that by putting Ubuntu on Dell
>     computers,
>     >     this
>     >     >     invites a whole community of non-Linux people to the software
>     which is
>     >     >     so stupefyingly complex to comprehend.
>     >     >
>     >     >     I'm not an uneducated person - I have a degree in
>     electronics
>     >     >     engineering - but my knowledge is in electronics hardware -
>     not in
>     >     >     software at all. I never touch software in my work an an
>     engineer, but
>     >     >     I'm a hardware specialist, particularly in Analog
>     electronics
>     >     design,
>     >     >     but not simulated Analog circuits in software - the old
>     fashioned way,
>     >     >     even in my head is the best way. I have my own
>     >     >      home lab too.
>     >     >
>     >     >     So you can imagine how frustrating this makes me feel. And
>     insulted.
>     >     >     Imagine an average high-school educated person trying all of
>     this out,
>     >     >     what their experience would be like! They would never touch
>     Linux
>     >     again.
>     >     >
>     >     >     But sadly nobody listens, even on the Ubuntu forum
>     >     >     answers.launchpad.net, it seems to be geared towards a
>     >     >     computer-programmer culture which is a HUGE drawback and will
>     >     definitely
>     >     >     prevent the successful spread of Linux.
>     >     >
>     >     >     This kind of stuff has to be ported successfully - away from
>     the
>     >     >     influence of Linux  culture and enthusiasts - so
>     professionals and
>     >     >     regular folk who aren't programmers, and who simply
>     don't have
>     >     the
>     >     >     knowledge or time to spend on learning this stuff can still
>     make good
>     >     >     use of it at home or at work. The computer is supposed to do
>     the work
>     >     >     after all but some of this software makes you wonder what you
>     bought a
>     >     >     microprocessor for.
>     >     >
>     >     >     I've been using Ubuntu for
>     >     >      over a year now. But there are times when I
>     >     >     get so frustrated and tired of this programming lingo that I
>     just want
>     >     >     to give it up and go back to Windows (or preferably Mac).
>     >     >
>     >     >     Enough said on that....
>     >     >
>     >     >     I still can't make any use at all of this Joomla stuff
>     and
>     >     certainly
>     >     >     from my experience on the launchpad forum, any attempt to
>     even
>     >     >     understand what "htacess" is all about, well
>     that's just
>     >     for
>     >     >     people who
>     >     >     live and breathe computers - I'm just trying to use mine
>     and
>     >     simply
>     >     >     don't have the time to turn it into an on-going lab
>     experiment.
>     >     The kids
>     >     >     use it, my wife uses it - it can't be turned into an
>     on-going
>     >     >     experiment.
>     >     >
>     >     >     What am I supposed to do? Please advise? I still need a
>     usable
>     >     solution
>     >     >     but something that is aimed at "more stupid" people
>     who come
>     >     from a
>     >     >     Windows or Mac environment, something that will let me get
>     the job
>     >     done
>     >     >     - configure the computer properly without guesswork, and not
>     waste my
>     >     >     time on
>     >     >      stuff that should already have been done by the software.
>     >     >
>     >     >     Thanks,
>     >     >     geo
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >
>     >
>
>





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