Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
"Stéphane S. Somé"
stephanesome at googlemail.com
Tue Jun 24 21:02:03 UTC 2008
Setting up a basic web server is not that hard under Ubuntu either. The
help section describes pretty well how to do it. But you have some
specific needs that go beyond what a basic server can offer. I seriously
doubt anyone could set up something like a LAMP server with
authentication under Mac without having to read anything.
geo wrote:
>
> Actually, for Mac users, Macintosh computers come preconfigured so you
> can set up a Webserver within OS X. I know this because before Ubuntu
> I was a Mac user (until the old Mac broke down and I couldn't afford
> to replace it).
>
>
>
> The level of sophistication which other computer users on other
> platforms already enjoy (Mac, Windows) is what Ubuntu will have to
> contend with. And yes many people who use Macs host a family website
> or something from their home computer.
>
>
>
> I want to see Ubuntu succeed as a good alternative because it's a very
> nice system. But these old Administrative throwbacks are a major
> obstacle yet unresolved in my experience.
>
>
>
> Blaming the client for the shortcomings of the software or
> installation process isn't productive - if the client cannot use the
> software, you have an upset and angry client and customer on your
> hands and that hurts the name of the product.
>
>
>
> Windows has come a long way in this but Windows has so much bloat and
> hardware requirements......it's not sensible for many to continue on
> the software merry-go-round.
>
>
>
> I want Ubuntu to succeed and if a client has criticism, it's important
> to view it as an opportunity to make something even better. After all,
> if the client has gone through the trouble to set things up and try it
> and get to the point of frustration, they obviously want the software
> to work, right?
>
>
>
> I want the software to work and if this can be resolved, it will only
> mean success for future users who will never acquire the specialized
> knowledge that only system admins have today.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 cents worth. peace,
>
> geo
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/24/08, "Stéphane S. Somé"
> /<stephanesome at googlemail.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: "Stéphane S. Somé" <stephanesome at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
> To: yaktur at yahoo.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:52 AM
>
> The fact is, what you are trying to do is not the kind of stuff a
> typical end user would try on any OS and expect a point and click type
> of behavior. There is a little bit of learning involved here and
> although the documentation is not perfect, it is a good start. It is a
> bit like getting a large furniture at IKEA and wanting to put it
> together without looking at the manual. That would be certainly be
> frustrating.
>
> geo wrote:
> >
> > Consider the frustration:
> >
> >
> >
> > The manual is 52 pages long, and in the manual it says to read it
> > completely before commencing installtion - I've already been wasting
> > days on trying to figure out software (human-made software, created by
> > humans) which is in a language which makes no sense at all. It seems
> > as if it's deliberately over-complicated.
> >
> > Even last night, I blew 2 hours just catching up on these computer
> > e-mails and trying to mess with Joomla - and at the end of the day
> > it's still just a puddle of bits and bytes on my hard drive - and it
> > still doesn't work. :(
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm even wasting time at work now catching up on this stuff. I come in
>
> > early so I can read and respond - yet the software will still not even
> > install.
> >
> >
> >
> > My wife doesn't understand why this takes so long and she waits for me
>
> > very patiently for these weeks I've been trying to get straight
> > answers in English and just set up something so they can use it at the
> > farm too.
> >
> >
> >
> > For all of the so-called "advancement" it still seems hopelessly
>
> > backwards and overly-complicated, making people work even harder when
> > it's supposed to help people work smarter. Ubuntu as a computer
> > environment is good and the family likes it!! It's swift, speedy and
> > runs better than Windows anyday!
> >
> >
> >
> > But I'm not impressed with this website PHP, htaccess, MySQL, Joomla
> > and other stuff........and there really ought to be a better way for
> > "Open Source" stuff to work so regular people can use it to be
> > productive and not have to take a university course in this stuff just
> > to even understand the manual.
> >
> >
> >
> > The bottom line? I still can't get Joomla to install - and I don't
>
> > have hours and $$ to blow on this. I just need it to work right the
> > first time when I run the installer - but the installer won't even
> > run. How good can that be? Imagine!
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 6/23/08, "Stéphane S. Somé"
> > /<stephanesome at googlemail.com>/* wrote:
> >
> > From: "Stéphane S. Somé"
> <stephanesome at googlemail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
> > To: yaktur at yahoo.com, "The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community"
> > <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 11:20 PM
> >
> > Did you have a look at the install manual ?
> >
> > http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/docman/?subdir=1
> >
> >
> > geo wrote:
> > > I don't have a "search" in my toolbar in Ubuntu so
> I'm
> > not sure what
> > > that refers to.
> > >
> > > I did go to the Joomla website and download the installer, un-ZIP
> it
> > > and then......when I double-click on INSTALL.php, Firefox opens
> it.
> > >
> > > And re-opens, and re-reopens......in other words, it doesn't
> install -
> >
> > > it just wastes my time.
> > >
> > > I don't mind books - in fact I prefer books - I'm very
> much a
> > > book-hound! I have an old british history book from 1704 and when
> the
> > > Antique Roadshow hit Toronto back in 98, they verified it's
> > > authenticity for me!
> > >
> > > But these days I have no money.....after feeding the kids, paying
> the
> > > mortgage, the bills, insurance, gas, etc.....you know.....and our
>
> > > local library has diddly-squat on computers.
> > >
> > > So when I ask on the https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
> website, the
> > > majority of my answers come back from hard-core users, or maybe
> worse
> > > - programmers! Not very useful, sadly.
> > >
> > > I don't get paid unless I produce - and I don't have the
> luxury of
> >
> > > money or time to be able to afford to go to courses or buy books
> on
> > > this stuff. Heck, just being able to afford gas these days is a
> > > challenge enough!
> > >
> > > Is it too much to ask to get answers that are good for
> "regular"
> > folks
> > > or professionals? I'm never going to learn all of this
> configuration
> > > language, I just need it to work so I can set it up over at the
> farm
> > > for the mushroom business as well as for my own personal stuff
> hosted
> > > from my computer at home.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > geo
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi:
> > >
> > > You don't have to go through the whole Synaptic list, in
> the tool
> > bar is
> > > "search", then you type in Joomla, and if you had
> updated
> > the list
> > > with
> > > "reload", then you might find things in minutes. It
> will do
> > a
> > > search
> > > for
> > > what you are looking for. I'm not sure what Joomla is,
> and
> > don't have
> > > the time right now to find out!
> > >
> > > There is quite a bit of stuff there in the Synaptic List, but
> it is
> > > Categorized too, so scroll down the list of Categories, and
> then the
> > > list is not so big. If you use the "ALL" list, it
> is Very
> > Big!
> > >
> > > Things can get broken when you start to install stuff, from
> outside
> > the
> > > "list".
> > >
> > > I used to be a Windblows person too, but now I don't use
> Winders
> > any
> > > more! There was always too much pressure to buy a new
> computer every
> > > week, or a new operating system, when the next version of a
> game
> > > demanded it! There were always all kinds of Mal-ware
> inserted, and
> > > Vulnerabilities that were not patched fast enough. Always all
> kinds of
> > > Panic Attacks about the New Virus, starting up. A new
> computer would
> > > start acting very slow, very fast with all the Patches on top
> of
> > Patches
> > > on top of Patches, on top of
> > > Patches. You don't want Linux to be like
> > > that do you? ;-)
> > >
> > > There are a few Good Books you can get on Ubuntu, and even
> quite a
> > list
> > > of Tutorial Web sites, if Books are not you Cuppa tea.
> > >
> > > Alfred!
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: geo <yaktur at yahoo.com>
> > > Reply-To: yaktur at yahoo.com, The Canadian Ubuntu Users
> Community
> > > <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > > To: Mark W. Law <bear at wightman.ca>
> > > Cc: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> > > Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
> > > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I finally found something on how to install Joomla. But it
> only
> > confirms
> > > my problem.
> > >
> > > I do have PHP5 and MySql installed (by the Synaptic.....by
> golly
> > there's
> > > too much to choose from, this list should be pared down for
> us
> > non-Linux
> > > folk! It's WAY too much useless information to pick and
> guess
> > through).
> > >
> > > I've restarted the
> > > computer to make sure whatever got installed would be
> > > "done" - typical Windows thing but what else can
> you do!
> > >
> > > I still cannot install Joomla, I still get the same
> repetition of what
> > > to do with PHP files, open with Firefox or Save to disk. I
> click Open
> > > and it just repeats.
> > >
> > > How come these things aren't geared for ex-Windows users?
> > Don't the
> > > people at Ubuntu realize that by putting Ubuntu on Dell
> computers,
> > this
> > > invites a whole community of non-Linux people to the software
> which is
> > > so stupefyingly complex to comprehend.
> > >
> > > I'm not an uneducated person - I have a degree in
> electronics
> > > engineering - but my knowledge is in electronics hardware -
> not in
> > > software at all. I never touch software in my work an an
> engineer, but
> > > I'm a hardware specialist, particularly in Analog
> electronics
> > design,
> > > but not simulated Analog circuits in software - the old
> fashioned way,
> > > even in my head is the best way. I have my own
> > > home lab too.
> > >
> > > So you can imagine how frustrating this makes me feel. And
> insulted.
> > > Imagine an average high-school educated person trying all of
> this out,
> > > what their experience would be like! They would never touch
> Linux
> > again.
> > >
> > > But sadly nobody listens, even on the Ubuntu forum
> > > answers.launchpad.net, it seems to be geared towards a
> > > computer-programmer culture which is a HUGE drawback and will
> > definitely
> > > prevent the successful spread of Linux.
> > >
> > > This kind of stuff has to be ported successfully - away from
> the
> > > influence of Linux culture and enthusiasts - so
> professionals and
> > > regular folk who aren't programmers, and who simply
> don't have
> > the
> > > knowledge or time to spend on learning this stuff can still
> make good
> > > use of it at home or at work. The computer is supposed to do
> the work
> > > after all but some of this software makes you wonder what you
> bought a
> > > microprocessor for.
> > >
> > > I've been using Ubuntu for
> > > over a year now. But there are times when I
> > > get so frustrated and tired of this programming lingo that I
> just want
> > > to give it up and go back to Windows (or preferably Mac).
> > >
> > > Enough said on that....
> > >
> > > I still can't make any use at all of this Joomla stuff
> and
> > certainly
> > > from my experience on the launchpad forum, any attempt to
> even
> > > understand what "htacess" is all about, well
> that's just
> > for
> > > people who
> > > live and breathe computers - I'm just trying to use mine
> and
> > simply
> > > don't have the time to turn it into an on-going lab
> experiment.
> > The kids
> > > use it, my wife uses it - it can't be turned into an
> on-going
> > > experiment.
> > >
> > > What am I supposed to do? Please advise? I still need a
> usable
> > solution
> > > but something that is aimed at "more stupid" people
> who come
> > from a
> > > Windows or Mac environment, something that will let me get
> the job
> > done
> > > - configure the computer properly without guesswork, and not
> waste my
> > > time on
> > > stuff that should already have been done by the software.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > geo
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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