Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
geo
yaktur at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 24 15:07:00 UTC 2008
Actually, for Mac users, Macintosh computers come preconfigured so you can set up a Webserver within OS X. I know this because before Ubuntu I was a Mac user (until the old Mac broke down and I couldn't afford to replace it).
The level of sophistication which other computer users on other platforms already enjoy (Mac, Windows) is what Ubuntu will have to contend with. And yes many people who use Macs host a family website or something from their home computer.
I want to see Ubuntu succeed as a good alternative because it's a very nice system. But these old Administrative throwbacks are a major obstacle yet unresolved in my experience.
Blaming the client for the shortcomings of the software or installation process isn't productive - if the client cannot use the software, you have an upset and angry client and customer on your hands and that hurts the name of the product.
Windows has come a long way in this but Windows has so much bloat and hardware requirements......it's not sensible for many to continue on the software merry-go-round.
I want Ubuntu to succeed and if a client has criticism, it's important to view it as an opportunity to make something even better. After all, if the client has gone through the trouble to set things up and try it and get to the point of frustration, they obviously want the software to work, right?
I want the software to work and if this can be resolved, it will only mean success for future users who will never acquire the specialized knowledge that only system admins have today.
Just my 2 cents worth. peace,
geo
--- On Tue, 6/24/08, "Stéphane S. Somé" <stephanesome at googlemail.com> wrote:
From: "Stéphane S. Somé" <stephanesome at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
To: yaktur at yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:52 AM
The fact is, what you are trying to do is not the kind of stuff a
typical end user would try on any OS and expect a point and click type
of behavior. There is a little bit of learning involved here and
although the documentation is not perfect, it is a good start. It is a
bit like getting a large furniture at IKEA and wanting to put it
together without looking at the manual. That would be certainly be
frustrating.
geo wrote:
>
> Consider the frustration:
>
>
>
> The manual is 52 pages long, and in the manual it says to read it
> completely before commencing installtion - I've already been wasting
> days on trying to figure out software (human-made software, created by
> humans) which is in a language which makes no sense at all. It seems
> as if it's deliberately over-complicated.
>
> Even last night, I blew 2 hours just catching up on these computer
> e-mails and trying to mess with Joomla - and at the end of the day
> it's still just a puddle of bits and bytes on my hard drive - and it
> still doesn't work. :(
>
>
>
> I'm even wasting time at work now catching up on this stuff. I come in
> early so I can read and respond - yet the software will still not even
> install.
>
>
>
> My wife doesn't understand why this takes so long and she waits for me
> very patiently for these weeks I've been trying to get straight
> answers in English and just set up something so they can use it at the
> farm too.
>
>
>
> For all of the so-called "advancement" it still seems hopelessly
> backwards and overly-complicated, making people work even harder when
> it's supposed to help people work smarter. Ubuntu as a computer
> environment is good and the family likes it!! It's swift, speedy and
> runs better than Windows anyday!
>
>
>
> But I'm not impressed with this website PHP, htaccess, MySQL, Joomla
> and other stuff........and there really ought to be a better way for
> "Open Source" stuff to work so regular people can use it to be
> productive and not have to take a university course in this stuff just
> to even understand the manual.
>
>
>
> The bottom line? I still can't get Joomla to install - and I don't
> have hours and $$ to blow on this. I just need it to work right the
> first time when I run the installer - but the installer won't even
> run. How good can that be? Imagine!
>
> --- On *Mon, 6/23/08, "Stéphane S. Somé"
> /<stephanesome at googlemail.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: "Stéphane S. Somé"
<stephanesome at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
> To: yaktur at yahoo.com, "The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community"
> <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 11:20 PM
>
> Did you have a look at the install manual ?
>
> http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/docman/?subdir=1
>
>
> geo wrote:
> > I don't have a "search" in my toolbar in Ubuntu so
I'm
> not sure what
> > that refers to.
> >
> > I did go to the Joomla website and download the installer, un-ZIP
it
> > and then......when I double-click on INSTALL.php, Firefox opens
it.
> >
> > And re-opens, and re-reopens......in other words, it doesn't
install -
>
> > it just wastes my time.
> >
> > I don't mind books - in fact I prefer books - I'm very
much a
> > book-hound! I have an old british history book from 1704 and when
the
> > Antique Roadshow hit Toronto back in 98, they verified it's
> > authenticity for me!
> >
> > But these days I have no money.....after feeding the kids, paying
the
> > mortgage, the bills, insurance, gas, etc.....you know.....and our
> > local library has diddly-squat on computers.
> >
> > So when I ask on the https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
website, the
> > majority of my answers come back from hard-core users, or maybe
worse
> > - programmers! Not very useful, sadly.
> >
> > I don't get paid unless I produce - and I don't have the
luxury of
>
> > money or time to be able to afford to go to courses or buy books
on
> > this stuff. Heck, just being able to afford gas these days is a
> > challenge enough!
> >
> > Is it too much to ask to get answers that are good for
"regular"
> folks
> > or professionals? I'm never going to learn all of this
configuration
> > language, I just need it to work so I can set it up over at the
farm
> > for the mushroom business as well as for my own personal stuff
hosted
> > from my computer at home.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > geo
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > You don't have to go through the whole Synaptic list, in
the tool
> bar is
> > "search", then you type in Joomla, and if you had
updated
> the list
> > with
> > "reload", then you might find things in minutes. It
will do
> a
> > search
> > for
> > what you are looking for. I'm not sure what Joomla is,
and
> don't have
> > the time right now to find out!
> >
> > There is quite a bit of stuff there in the Synaptic List, but
it is
> > Categorized too, so scroll down the list of Categories, and
then the
> > list is not so big. If you use the "ALL" list, it
is Very
> Big!
> >
> > Things can get broken when you start to install stuff, from
outside
> the
> > "list".
> >
> > I used to be a Windblows person too, but now I don't use
Winders
> any
> > more! There was always too much pressure to buy a new
computer every
> > week, or a new operating system, when the next version of a
game
> > demanded it! There were always all kinds of Mal-ware
inserted, and
> > Vulnerabilities that were not patched fast enough. Always all
kinds of
> > Panic Attacks about the New Virus, starting up. A new
computer would
> > start acting very slow, very fast with all the Patches on top
of
> Patches
> > on top of Patches, on top of
> > Patches. You don't want Linux to be like
> > that do you? ;-)
> >
> > There are a few Good Books you can get on Ubuntu, and even
quite a
> list
> > of Tutorial Web sites, if Books are not you Cuppa tea.
> >
> > Alfred!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: geo <yaktur at yahoo.com>
> > Reply-To: yaktur at yahoo.com, The Canadian Ubuntu Users
Community
> > <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > To: Mark W. Law <bear at wightman.ca>
> > Cc: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Subject: Re: Ubuntu users in Ontario, Canada?
> > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I finally found something on how to install Joomla. But it
only
> confirms
> > my problem.
> >
> > I do have PHP5 and MySql installed (by the Synaptic.....by
golly
> there's
> > too much to choose from, this list should be pared down for
us
> non-Linux
> > folk! It's WAY too much useless information to pick and
guess
> through).
> >
> > I've restarted the
> > computer to make sure whatever got installed would be
> > "done" - typical Windows thing but what else can
you do!
> >
> > I still cannot install Joomla, I still get the same
repetition of what
> > to do with PHP files, open with Firefox or Save to disk. I
click Open
> > and it just repeats.
> >
> > How come these things aren't geared for ex-Windows users?
> Don't the
> > people at Ubuntu realize that by putting Ubuntu on Dell
computers,
> this
> > invites a whole community of non-Linux people to the software
which is
> > so stupefyingly complex to comprehend.
> >
> > I'm not an uneducated person - I have a degree in
electronics
> > engineering - but my knowledge is in electronics hardware -
not in
> > software at all. I never touch software in my work an an
engineer, but
> > I'm a hardware specialist, particularly in Analog
electronics
> design,
> > but not simulated Analog circuits in software - the old
fashioned way,
> > even in my head is the best way. I have my own
> > home lab too.
> >
> > So you can imagine how frustrating this makes me feel. And
insulted.
> > Imagine an average high-school educated person trying all of
this out,
> > what their experience would be like! They would never touch
Linux
> again.
> >
> > But sadly nobody listens, even on the Ubuntu forum
> > answers.launchpad.net, it seems to be geared towards a
> > computer-programmer culture which is a HUGE drawback and will
> definitely
> > prevent the successful spread of Linux.
> >
> > This kind of stuff has to be ported successfully - away from
the
> > influence of Linux culture and enthusiasts - so
professionals and
> > regular folk who aren't programmers, and who simply
don't have
> the
> > knowledge or time to spend on learning this stuff can still
make good
> > use of it at home or at work. The computer is supposed to do
the work
> > after all but some of this software makes you wonder what you
bought a
> > microprocessor for.
> >
> > I've been using Ubuntu for
> > over a year now. But there are times when I
> > get so frustrated and tired of this programming lingo that I
just want
> > to give it up and go back to Windows (or preferably Mac).
> >
> > Enough said on that....
> >
> > I still can't make any use at all of this Joomla stuff
and
> certainly
> > from my experience on the launchpad forum, any attempt to
even
> > understand what "htacess" is all about, well
that's just
> for
> > people who
> > live and breathe computers - I'm just trying to use mine
and
> simply
> > don't have the time to turn it into an on-going lab
experiment.
> The kids
> > use it, my wife uses it - it can't be turned into an
on-going
> > experiment.
> >
> > What am I supposed to do? Please advise? I still need a
usable
> solution
> > but something that is aimed at "more stupid" people
who come
> from a
> > Windows or Mac environment, something that will let me get
the job
> done
> > - configure the computer properly without guesswork, and not
waste my
> > time on
> > stuff that should already have been done by the software.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > geo
> >
> >
>
>
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