[ubuntu-art] Re: Default themes

Wed May 3 05:54:57 BST 2006

 2006/5/2, bvc <bvcmdk at yahoo.com> wrote:
        To address your list....
        1) I think any pixmap themes should come from the other 3 community themes.

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <mikkel.kamstrup at gmail.com> wrote:
    Please plese, no pixmap themes. They may look shiny, but I believe them to be one of the core things that make people say that Gnome is unresponsive. Dapper is feeling snappy right now, let's keep it that way :-)

Please excuse the format of this email. I really need to change my email address for the list so I can use evolution instead of this yahoo garbage.

Gnome is unresponsive because of cairo. The destruction took place with its premature, buggy inclusion in gnome2.10. It has improved but not near enough. If dapper feels snappy it's because you are not using ubunutulooks either. You have an old sys. Most, or a lot, do not and if you take a look at the most downloaded themes, you'll find they're mostly pixmap. People like eyecandy. No, I don't have a problem with pixmap themes not being included. I don't use them anymore anyway because of cairo's slow rendering and I'm not old. I'm not new but....athlon xp 1900, 512mb ram, nvidia gf mx440 64mb agp. Sad that something like this can't use pixmap themes. Very sad indeed.

 2006/5/2, bvc <bvcmdk at yahoo.com> wrote:
        2) earth tones? I think that should also come from the 3 community themes. Some people just want a simple, bland, gray desktop without any color, so shouldn't that be an option that is available by default? Smooth-gray from Smooth9?
        http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/gtk/Smooth9-gray.png
        ...or is the what we are trying to avoid? ...simple, bland, gray desktop without any color? Mark?

        6) Agreed. If I am understanding you correctly, it's what I wanted to see in Breezy
        http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png

        The issue with the metacity theme is not much of an issue IMO. Most of the current default gnome themes do not function correctly anyway and have bad flaws.

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <mikkel.kamstrup at gmail.com> wrote:
    That is not an excuse. Windows without buttons show up from time to time, and it just feels unpolished and Dapper is all about polish.

I have never seen a window without a button. You must either use bad third party apps or a strange/custon button layout. For those that do not know what we are talking about.....
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/mcity/BlendedSmallSquare.png
This is nothing compared to the errors in the current default themes which do not follow basic logic/common sense, or fitts law. Not that mine are perfect. I'm not a fitts law freak.

 2006/5/2, bvc <bvcmdk at yahoo.com> wrote:
        The menubar problem is one the gdk>gtk=xul apps need to work out quickly. As a themer I do not worry about the bad apps. There's no reason they can not be pure gtk like the other 99.99% of apps.

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <mikkel.kamstrup at gmail.com> wrote:
    For theming in general I agree. However, this is long-term-support distro - if there are inconsistensies on the desktop, it has to be sorted out. If the only thing we can do in due time is to hack the theme, then I think we should accept that.

Point is, it can not be hacked, can it? I don't know how, do you? I'd bet there's a way but...where's devel? It IS NOT an inconsistency in the theme, it is an inconsistency is bad/lazy coded, minority apps that are not true gtk apps.

I don't say this for just my themes, but for SandSkater as well. Don't diss the menubar or theme because of 2 apps! I don't have oo installed and haven't for over 1.5 years. I use real world, working, compliant apps for that suff. Yes, MS. I only have firefox installed to ensure my themes are usable, not perfect. Their usage of gdk is not acceptable!!!

 2006/5/2, bvc <bvcmdk at yahoo.com> wrote:
        What contrast, where in Smooth9?
        Green Smooth9? gPerfect-flat or japan-flat? 

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <mikkel.kamstrup at gmail.com> wrote:
    Sorry for being unclear, it was this one: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre2/34670-2.png

There are 10 themes in that pack. That is just the screenie of the ui. The contrast is low on that one, but how about Hedgehog, Serinity, Breathe, Etiquette? They have a lot more contrast.

 2006/5/2, bvc <bvcmdk at yahoo.com> wrote:
        The Unity buttons came from the default theme for xfce (4.2?) because it was a port to gnome. I think they are fine. That said, I personally prefer to use the Gentle metacity theme which came from the same. 

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <mikkel.kamstrup at gmail.com> wrote:
    The Gentle metacity theme is pretty cool. However - as is also true for Blended* and  Human - it's a tad on the slow side, all taking over 20 ms to render on my box (use metacity-theme-viewer to benchmark). Generally metacity sucks at gradients as far as my research goes.

Hey, this isn't xubuntu, or the proposed fubuntu, or any other liteweight, whatever. It's gnome. Metacity is fine. Kill nautilus if you have speed issues. That's a fact! People have long dissed metacity without knowing what they are talking about. Metacity isn't the problem. I'm not saying it can't be better or better shouldn't be desired. I hate theming it, and upon its creation, by choice, it has many limitations, but it's a very small portion of peoples speed issues.

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