Light reading : Technical terms - translate or not translate?

Mon Aug 4 03:52:54 BST 2008

You make some extremely valid points but the issue is that the masses decide
what the correct term is and that word becomes a de-facto standard and
becomes
part of the language.  The number of Arabic words in the English language is
astounding
but the words have undergone such a transformation and with time have become
somewhat
English in their own way.  Lets take the word "cipher" in English as an
example, derived from
"sifr" or "zero" in Arabic.  Cipher means a code of some sort but is still
based on the Arabic word for
zero.  Cipher is now more English than Arabic and I dare say, now has almost
no connection to the Arabic root.

I understand and agree with the sense of pride that comes with having your
own word for
something in a language but if people don't use that word it becomes null
and void.  At that
point trying to use a word from the language itself can be viewed in a
somewhat negative manner.
If Arabic is to grow linguistically in the tech field then people at the
forefront (like people on these lists) need to use an arabic word at the
beginning (like your word for proxy).  Even if its wrong, it will make the
basis Arabic and then
the masses will use the word they heard the first time, not the new
corrected word 5 years later.

People memorize, they don't necessarily learn... the sooner Arabic is used
for terms and taught in schools
the better.  Using terms in software NOW is a good way of setting a standard
as people will be forced
to use them.  Anyways, just my 2 cents, I love the open and intellectual
conversation.

-rami

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org> wrote:

> Borrowing words from other language is an option and it can be well
> tolerated it it is an exception done occasionally, may be with the idea
> that it can be very will replaced with a native Arabic word when a
> suitable one is present. Otherwise, with the massive number of new terms
> appearing every year, way may compromise the integrity of our language
> rendering it a heterogeneous collection of badly coined words with no
> connections to each other.
>
> Also, the common claim that English terms are "more obvious" than Arabic
> counterparts that we should simply borrow the English one is a very
> false claim based in the assumptions that every one knows the English
> term (and that every one knows it really understands it linguistically
> wise), which is very untrue. I'll give you a simple real example: I've
> been seeing the word proxy transliterated into Arabic for years, and I
> never happen to know what does it mean, until I encountered it in the
> translation, then with some research I realized that it originates from
> the legal term of وكيل or وسيط hence we now translate it as وسيط, now it
> is a really obvious term that I bet every one can guess its technical
> meaning with much little effort.
>
> Regards,
>  Khaled
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:40:03AM -0400, Abstract wrote:
> > Khaled,
> >
> > Yes, that makes perfect sense, as many words in English have Arabic roots
> as
> > well.  I believe it's common
> > and no fault or weakness of a language to make use of some words from
> another.
> > However, I do suggest
> > that classical Arabic be used as a Moroccan user may not completely get
> "Baas"
> > because they use a combination of Arabic with French influence, but
> > they do understand the classical Arabic term.  You ever tried asking for
> a
> > mobile phone in the middle east?  There are 4 words
> > for it, but everyone seems to understand 5elewi.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Jad/Hakam madi <Jad at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >
> >     I'm not sure about Egypt but in Jordan Arabizi (Arabic Mixed with
> >     English) is very popular and English is very popular, actually in
> many
> >     cases people prefer to use English terms as they are used to it more
> >     than Arabic ones, to sum it up, it's all about getting used to it
> >     rather than understanding the meaning 100% .
> >     for example in Jordan we call public bus a     although the Arabic
> >     term been there for long time        but we still use the word
> >     even in some official documents and that's because we are used to it.
> >
> >     So it's not just about translating a term but about using it.
> >
> >     Now we are discussing Arabic translation issue in English :-)
> >     Happy translation.
> >
> >
> >     2008/8/2 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>:
> >     > Nice article, but if not so much interest in case of Arabic
> translators.
> >     > Arabic is a completely different language with a different script,
> using
> >     > English terms as such isn't a viable option, transliteration is as
> bad.
> >     > In the same time, you can't depend on the common usage because of
> the
> >     > diglossa status, what works with vernacular Arabic isn't (most of
> the
> >     > time) suitable for the written classical or modern standard Arabic.
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     >  Khaled
> >     >
> >     > On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:11:19AM +0300, Jad/Hakam madi wrote:
> >     >> http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/33/1/
> >     Technical-terms---translate-or-not-translate
> >     >>
> >     >> --
> >     >> Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it
> while
> >     >> you can.
> >     >>
> >     >> http://Ubuntu.com/  Linux for Human Beings
> >     >> http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
> >     >> Mobile: 962 77 7795404
> >     >> Skype: jadmadi
> >     >> 1024D/1BC049D2
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> >     > --
> >     >  Khaled Hosny
> >     >  Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
> >     >
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> >     --
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> >
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>  Khaled Hosny
>  Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
>
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