Light reading : Technical terms - translate or not translate?
Jad/Hakam madi
Jad at Ubuntu.com
Mon Aug 4 07:38:04 BST 2008
another thing, people use what is classy, I dare you to ask for قهوه
بارده بالحليب instead of frappuccino!
2008/8/4 Abstract <thikrat at gmail.com>:
> You make some extremely valid points but the issue is that the masses decide
> what the correct term is and that word becomes a de-facto standard and
> becomes
> part of the language. The number of Arabic words in the English language is
> astounding
> but the words have undergone such a transformation and with time have become
> somewhat
> English in their own way. Lets take the word "cipher" in English as an
> example, derived from
> "sifr" or "zero" in Arabic. Cipher means a code of some sort but is still
> based on the Arabic word for
> zero. Cipher is now more English than Arabic and I dare say, now has almost
> no connection to the Arabic root.
>
> I understand and agree with the sense of pride that comes with having your
> own word for
> something in a language but if people don't use that word it becomes null
> and void. At that
> point trying to use a word from the language itself can be viewed in a
> somewhat negative manner.
> If Arabic is to grow linguistically in the tech field then people at the
> forefront (like people on these lists) need to use an arabic word at the
> beginning (like your word for proxy). Even if its wrong, it will make the
> basis Arabic and then
> the masses will use the word they heard the first time, not the new
> corrected word 5 years later.
>
> People memorize, they don't necessarily learn... the sooner Arabic is used
> for terms and taught in schools
> the better. Using terms in software NOW is a good way of setting a standard
> as people will be forced
> to use them. Anyways, just my 2 cents, I love the open and intellectual
> conversation.
>
> -rami
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org> wrote:
>>
>> Borrowing words from other language is an option and it can be well
>> tolerated it it is an exception done occasionally, may be with the idea
>> that it can be very will replaced with a native Arabic word when a
>> suitable one is present. Otherwise, with the massive number of new terms
>> appearing every year, way may compromise the integrity of our language
>> rendering it a heterogeneous collection of badly coined words with no
>> connections to each other.
>>
>> Also, the common claim that English terms are "more obvious" than Arabic
>> counterparts that we should simply borrow the English one is a very
>> false claim based in the assumptions that every one knows the English
>> term (and that every one knows it really understands it linguistically
>> wise), which is very untrue. I'll give you a simple real example: I've
>> been seeing the word proxy transliterated into Arabic for years, and I
>> never happen to know what does it mean, until I encountered it in the
>> translation, then with some research I realized that it originates from
>> the legal term of وكيل or وسيط hence we now translate it as وسيط, now it
>> is a really obvious term that I bet every one can guess its technical
>> meaning with much little effort.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Khaled
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 08:40:03AM -0400, Abstract wrote:
>> > Khaled,
>> >
>> > Yes, that makes perfect sense, as many words in English have Arabic
>> > roots as
>> > well. I believe it's common
>> > and no fault or weakness of a language to make use of some words from
>> > another.
>> > However, I do suggest
>> > that classical Arabic be used as a Moroccan user may not completely get
>> > "Baas"
>> > because they use a combination of Arabic with French influence, but
>> > they do understand the classical Arabic term. You ever tried asking for
>> > a
>> > mobile phone in the middle east? There are 4 words
>> > for it, but everyone seems to understand 5elewi.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Jad/Hakam madi <Jad at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm not sure about Egypt but in Jordan Arabizi (Arabic Mixed with
>> > English) is very popular and English is very popular, actually in
>> > many
>> > cases people prefer to use English terms as they are used to it more
>> > than Arabic ones, to sum it up, it's all about getting used to it
>> > rather than understanding the meaning 100% .
>> > for example in Jordan we call public bus a although the Arabic
>> > term been there for long time but we still use the word
>> > even in some official documents and that's because we are used to
>> > it.
>> >
>> > So it's not just about translating a term but about using it.
>> >
>> > Now we are discussing Arabic translation issue in English :-)
>> > Happy translation.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2008/8/2 Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny at eglug.org>:
>> > > Nice article, but if not so much interest in case of Arabic
>> > translators.
>> > > Arabic is a completely different language with a different script,
>> > using
>> > > English terms as such isn't a viable option, transliteration is as
>> > bad.
>> > > In the same time, you can't depend on the common usage because of
>> > the
>> > > diglossa status, what works with vernacular Arabic isn't (most of
>> > the
>> > > time) suitable for the written classical or modern standard
>> > Arabic.
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Khaled
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:11:19AM +0300, Jad/Hakam madi wrote:
>> > >> http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/33/1/
>> > Technical-terms---translate-or-not-translate
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it
>> > while
>> > >> you can.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://Ubuntu.com/ Linux for Human Beings
>> > >> http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
>> > >> Mobile: 962 77 7795404
>> > >> Skype: jadmadi
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>> > >>
>> > >> --
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>> > > --
>> > > Khaled Hosny
>> > > Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
>> > >
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>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it
>> > while
>> > you can.
>> >
>> > http://Ubuntu.com/ Linux for Human Beings
>> > http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
>> > Mobile: 962 77 7795404
>> > Skype: jadmadi
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>> --
>> Khaled Hosny
>> Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team
>>
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>
>
--
Your Freedom is worth more than you think. Take advantage of it while
you can.
http://Ubuntu.com/ Linux for Human Beings
http://Nashmi.org/ Ubuntu Jordan LoCo
Mobile: 962 77 7795404
Skype: jadmadi
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