Ubuntu preinstalled on laptops

[John Pinner]

Hello All,

Paul Sladen and John Levin kindly passed me copies of posts on the 
Sounder list concerning Thinkpads pre-installed with Breezy as listed on 
our Linux Emporium website. Specifically some people wanted to know if 
underneath Microsoft were still getting money for licences which were 
not used - the iniquitous 'Microsoft tax'.

I told them that the answer was not simple, and I would reply when I 
found time. This is the reply.

Benj. Mako Hill wrote:
> <quote who="john levin" date="Wed, Jan 25, 2006 at 06:44:20PM +0000">
> 
>>Browsing around today, I found the following:
>>
>>"We sell four basic models of the legendary Thinkpad, all pre-built with 
>>Linux.
>>Each model is available with a variety of options: the starting point is 
>>to have the machine pre-configured with Ubuntu 5.10, then there are 
>>options for having SUSE 10 instead, dual-booting with Windows, and the 
>>usual add-ons like extra memory, USB floppy and CD drives, etc.
>>We regret that we do not accept orders for laptop computers from outside 
>>the UK."
> 
> 
> Excellent!
> 
> What it unclear to me is whether you are paying for a proprietary OS
> and then just not getting it or if they have worked out a deal where
> they are buying and reselling Thinkpads sans OS. I'd definitely be
> interested in the latter (I can certainly install Ubuntu on my own)

See below for my (somewhat lengthy) reply.

> and it's harder to find than it should be.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you 'google' for 'linux laptops' 
we are on the first page of results for both 'pages from the UK' and 
'the web' (at least from the UK we are).


Reply to OS Question
====================

First of all, some background. I've been using Unix for over 20 years, 
and GNU/Linux for 11. For over 5 years our business has been wholly 
committed to FLOSS software, practically all our income comes from 
GNU/Linux-based systems, and we licence our software under the GPL 
(unless the customer specifies otherwise, so far they (even Ford Motor 
Co) haven't.

What I'm trying to say is that we are not cynical users of Open Source 
who take and don't give back. We are committed to Free Software, even 
though we feel sometimes that we are ploughing a lonely furrow, and it 
hasn't always been financially sensible. We don't want to pay the 
Microsoft tax any more than you do, and it's a matter of principle, not 
just cash.

Now to hardware in general and Thinkpads in particular. We used to build 
our own systems (not laptops) in order to supply our customers with 
machines which we knew would work with GNU/Linux. Nowadays that should 
be un-necessary, and we now supply branded hardware. Our customers feel 
more secure, and we have got rid of the hardware support problem. We 
chose to go with IBM, because they are still the most widely-accepted 
'Tier 1' supplier, and because they seem to have embraced Linux and have 
even put lots of things back into the pot. Pity about the patents.

Recently the IBM notebook and PC business was spun off to Lenovo, who 
seem to have taken over the business lock stock and barrel, R & D, Sales 
and Manufacturing. The only difference seems to be that they have built 
3 new manufacturing plants, with a fourth in progress, so the old IBM 
supply problems should disappear soon. Maybe prices will come down as well.

Another reason to use IBM was that, for the servers, we did not have to 
buy an operating system, they come MS-free, and for the PC's and 
notebooks, they list machines without Windows. These are loaded with DOS 
2000, an old but millenium-compliant IBM PC-DOS, presumably because by 
supplying them with a (rudimentary) OS, they can't be accused of 
encouraging piracy.

So IBM/Lenovo list Thinkpad notebooks without Windows, so that's what we 
use, right? Well, not quite. The thing is that, although they're listed, 
the distributors don't usually stock them, because just about no one 
else but us wants them and we don't order enough (yet). If we order a 
machine without Windows it takes maybe 3-6 weeks to come, and costs 
_more_ than the same machine loaded with Windows, because the 
distributor isn't getting the quantity discount from IBM/Lenovo. So we 
get what is economically available, which (usually, but not always) 
means one with Windows. We carry a minimal stock ourselves, as the No 1 
UK IBM distributor is just 15 minutes from our offices, so we don't have 
to have loads tied up in stock.

So if you order a laptop from us:
     1. We try to get a Windows-less machine from our distributor. If 
they have any we get extra for stock.
     2. If they haven't got one without, we get one with Windows.
     3. If the latter, we remove all traces of Windows (except for 
dual-booters).
     4. We keep the Windows licences and when we've collected a few we 
try and get some money back from Lenovo. This is more or less a token 
gesture to keep reminding them of what we want. We haven't got the time 
to follow it through with any vigour, but one day we'll succeed.

Over the past year, we have in fact managed to get a few machines 
without Windows, so it does happen sometimes.

Now, to give them their due, Lenovo have said that if we order enough 
machines they will produce whatever spec we want (including sans-OS). 
This means maybe 100 machines at a time, so we need to get the volume up 
- yes, send us your orders;)

I've also found a guy at Lenovo who is developing a 'configure to order' 
system, when it's introduced we'll be able to get one-offs to our spec. 
I doubt that we'll see this for 6-9 months, though.

I said the reply wasn't simple. The situation's not perfect, but we're 
getting there.

Regards,

John
-- 

John Pinner.
john at linuxemporium.co.uk
The Linux Emporium                      'Software for the Cognoscenti'
Bridge House, 17a Maybrook Road
Sutton Coldfield, B76 1AL. UK
Tel: +44 121 313 3857.  Fax: +44 121 313 3860