9w - an installer for old computers
Nio Wiklund
nio.wiklund at gmail.com
Sun Mar 16 15:29:17 UTC 2014
Hi Lubuntu users,
This link (posts #88 and #89) describes a new and polished version of
the 9w installer and the compressed image files available
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=5&p=12957586#post12957586
There are updated compressed images with Phill's nonpae kernel.
1. An ultra-light text only system made from the Ubuntu Trusty beta 1
mini.iso
dd_TrustyB1npae-text.img.xz
This system runs for me in an IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M with 80 MB
RAM (set with the boot option mem=80M)
2. A very light Lubuntu Core system made from the Ubuntu Trusty beta 1
mini.iso
dd_TrustyB1npae-LubuCore.img.xz
This system is lighter than the previous 'Ltrusty' and runs with 128 MB
RAM ... as shown by Doug S at the Ubuntu Forums: it runs but needs more
RAM to do well while surfing the web :-P
-o-
Get the iso files and read the descriptions at
http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
1_Help-to-run-experimental_9w-installer.txt -> README.txt
1477443584 mar 15 13:45 9w_multi-install_trusty-n-saucy.iso
439461 mar 7 10:23 GrowIt.pdf
343 mar 14 20:39 login-n-password.txt
708837376 mar 15 13:22 LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso
991 mar 15 14:22 md5sums.txt.asc
101211 mar 6 17:40 mkUSB-quick-start-manual.pdf
4421 mar 13 21:53 README.txt
660602880 mar 15 12:44 TrustyB1npae-LubuCore.iso
530579456 mar 15 08:49 TrustyB1npae-text.iso
Welcome to test it and report your results in a real computer or in a
virtual machine and at various levels of CPU horsepower and RAM size!
Best regards
Nio
2014-03-14 22:35, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> Hi Phill,
>
> Yes I can. I'll test with standard Lubuntu 32-bit.
>
> I guess the priority list should be what is possible with the
>
> 1. desktop installer
>
> 2. alternate installer
>
> and the non-conventional alternatives can be tested with standard
> Lubuntu and or Lubuntu Core
>
> 3. OBI (only booted from mass storage devices, typically USB pendrive)
>
> 4. 9w (booted from CD/DVD/USB drives)
>
> -o-
>
> I was not able to install Lubuntu Saucy with 128 MB RAM and any of the
> conventional installers. The alternate or mini iso (netboot) installer
> needed at least 160 MB. I could install with the OBI with 128 MB. I did
> not try the OBI with less RAM. The text in that page is brief, and I
> think it should state the limit for each installer. I expect that the
> limits will be the same or slightly higher with Trusty.
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
> 2014-03-14 21:19, Phill Whiteside skrev:
>> Hi Nio,
>>
>> can you ensure that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System_Requirements
>> is up to date.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>>
>> On 10 March 2014 01:46, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi again!
>>
>> A couple of friends at the Ubuntu Forums have helped us find the low
>> limit of hardware, when Lubuntu Saucy and Trusty can run (as installed
>> with the 9w installer)
>>
>> See this link (posts #76-79)
>>
>> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=4&p=12952191#post12952191
>>
>> Doug S wrote {
>>
>> Ventrical @ 166 Mhz and 80 Megabytes is not enough. Me at 200 Mhz and
>> 115 Megabytes right on the edge, and while installation was fine,
>> operationally probably not enough.
>> }
>>
>> Best regards
>> Nio
>>
>> 2014-03-08 13:38, Nio Wiklund skrev:
>> > [my text is at the end except the link]
>> >
>> > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
>> >
>> >
>> > 2014-03-08 12:24, Ali Linx skrev:
>> >>
>> >> On 03/08/2014 01:30 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>> >>> 2014-03-07 01:53, Nio Wiklund skrev:
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We want to try a new kernel for Trusty Tahr, that is developed by
>> >>>> PhillW. Many people help to build an Ubuntu based operating system
>> >>>> around it, a system that should work on most computers (maybe
>> except
>> >>>> some of those brand new ones that cannot switch off UEFI).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We have a wide variety of computers, but have not found any
>> really old
>> >>>> one without PAE capability. I'm not talking about Pentium M and
>> Celeron
>> >>>> M, I'm talking about CPUs before Pentium II:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pentium Pro, Pentium (i586), or Intel 486 or maybe the
>> corresponding
>> >>>> generation of AMD from 1993-1997.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have an old computer from 1998, and it has a Pentium II CPU
>> at 400
>> >>>> MHz, so it must be older. Check for a clock frequency at or
>> below 200
>> >>>> MHz.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you are a happy owner of such a jewel, please help us test
>> that the
>> >>>> non-pae kernel really works in a computer without PAE
>> capability :-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards
>> >>>> Nio
>> >>>>
>> >>> Hi again,
>> >>>
>> >>> After some [private] replies offering tests on old enough
>> hardware, I
>> >>> can report the following results:
>> >>>
>> >>> You can try the installer (to find out if it boots and runs in
>> text mode
>> >>> with really low RAM). An older computer might need less RAM for
>> drivers
>> >>> than my IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>> >>>
>> >>> *The Debian installer, live in an iso file*
>> >>>
>> >>> It starts in text mode and uses 18 MB RAM when idle (and 22 MB in a
>> >>> newer computer with AMD Athlon dual core 4400+), but I have problems
>> >>> below 64 MB, set with the boot option (text is default)
>> >>>
>> >>> mem=48M
>> >>>
>> >>> in an old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>> >>>
>> >>> it cannot unpack initramfs
>> >>>
>> >>> *Ubuntu Trusty installed system with Phill's non-pae kernel*
>> >>>
>> >>> The Ubuntu Trusty kernel needs more RAM, now after some
>> >>> testing I would say at least 64 MB, but I have problems below 80
>> MB, set
>> >>> with the boot options
>> >>>
>> >>> text mem=64M
>> >>>
>> >>> in the same old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>> >>>
>> >>> When idling
>> >>>
>> >>> free -m # shows 38 MB RAM used
>> >>> htop # shows 39 MB RAM used
>> >>>
>> >>> but it seems more RAM is needed at some stage of the boot process.
>> >>>
>> >>> -o-
>> >>>
>> >>> The really old computers available so far have too low RAM,
>> except one,
>> >>> with a Pentium Pro at 200 Mhz. It has 128 Megabytes of memory. The
>> >>> computer was purchased on 1996.08.31. But it has a PAE flag and
>> should
>> >>> be PAE capable.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm starting to think, that most computers if not all, that are old
>> >>> enough to lack PAE capability have too low RAM anyway for our
>> new Ubuntu
>> >>> flavour non-pae kernel.
>> >>>
>> >>> The outstanding exceptions are Celeron M and Pentium M, that
>> lack the
>> >>> PAE flag, but in most cases have PAE capability.
>> >>
>> >> Further to my previous reply:
>> >>
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2014-March/006876.html
>> >>
>> >> I have forgotten to mention that on this thread:
>> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
>> >>
>> >> I manged to install - trying again to save you the trouble to go
>> through
>> >> all the posts of that long thread - Linux on such super old
>> machine (P2
>> >> with 64MB RAM and 4GB HDD) by:
>> >>
>> >> 1- Taking the HDD out - because the machine itself has nothing to be
>> >> used to install Linux.
>> >> 2- Plugged the HDD to another machine.
>> >> 3- Linux installed - I wasted one month for this experiment
>> because more
>> >> than 50 different systems didn't work - check the thread.
>> >> 4- Disconnected the HDD and put it back in.
>> >>
>> >> One month, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I learned a lot and proved
>> a lot
>> >> but the real result wasn't helpful for a daily use. Why? because
>> these
>> >> machines can no longer serve while we are in 2014.
>> >>
>> >> I was shocked when I managed to connect to the Wireless Network and
>> >> update the system. But that was the further I managed to go IIRC.
>> >>
>> >> See the thread if you wish:
>> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
>> >>
>> >> If anyone still think I'm wrong, see the thread :)
>> >>
>> >> And first thing you do, check the date of that thread: October
>> 8th, 2010
>> >>
>> >>> Best regards
>> >>> Nio
>> >>>
>> >> Thank you!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Hi everybody :-)
>> >
>> > I see your points, I just want to explore things and find out myself.
>> >
>> >
>> > *. 9w - an installer for old computers
>> >
>> > So I uploaded a directory with an experimental installer and two
>> sample
>> > systems to install. The installer is based on a Debian system with an
>> > i486 kernel, and it can install any kind of [free] operating system.
>> > There are two sample systems which expand to 4 GB
>> >
>> > Lubuntu Trusty non-pae built february 23 'Ltrusty-npae-feb23.iso'
>> > Lubuntu Saucy PAE-for-Pentium-M 'LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso'
>> >
>> > 9w comes as a hybrid ISO file, that works from CD/DVD and cloned from
>> > USB. So it is simple to make install media for most old computers.
>> >
>> > See this link
>> >
>> > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
>> >
>> >
>> > 1. What computer will run at all, will be able to do some 'real work',
>> > etc? It might be worth the effort just for the sake of knowledge.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2. What computers are the target for a non-pae Ubuntu kernel?
>> >
>> > With the new fix in Trusty, [almost all] Pentium M and Celeron M will
>> > work with standard 32-bit kernel and the very simple tweak to add the
>> > boot option 'forcepae'.
>> >
>> > If all pre-Pentium II computers are out of the question, how many
>> > computers remain? For example: Are there motherboards, that are
>> non-pae,
>> > and are not helped by fake-PAE? Other problems?
>> >
>> > I'm thinking of Jörn's reply:
>> >
>> > -------- Ursprungligt meddelande --------
>> > Ämne: Re: have you got a really old computer
>> > Datum: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 22:48:24 +0100
>> > Från: Joern <joern.schoenyan at web.de <mailto:joern.schoenyan at web.de>>
>> > Till: Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>>
>> >
>> > There also some CPUs that aren't PAE capable but were likely shipped
>> > with enough RAM, like some VIA ones, 1 or 2 versions of Pentium M with
>> > 1.2 GHz and the Transmeta Crusoe.
>> >
>> > Jörn
>> > --------
>> >
>> >
>> > 3. What computers are the target for ToriOS?
>> >
>> > - Is Pentium 4 and 512 MB RAM the low limit?
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > Nio
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
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