9w - an installer for old computers
brendanperrine@gmail.com
walterorlin at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 21:39:35 UTC 2014
The numbers for each installer would also make it clear for people which
one would work best I like that idea.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Phill,
>
> Yes I can. I'll test with standard Lubuntu 32-bit.
>
> I guess the priority list should be what is possible with the
>
> 1. desktop installer
>
> 2. alternate installer
>
> and the non-conventional alternatives can be tested with standard
> Lubuntu and or Lubuntu Core
>
> 3. OBI (only booted from mass storage devices, typically USB pendrive)
>
> 4. 9w (booted from CD/DVD/USB drives)
>
> -o-
>
> I was not able to install Lubuntu Saucy with 128 MB RAM and any of the
> conventional installers. The alternate or mini iso (netboot) installer
> needed at least 160 MB. I could install with the OBI with 128 MB. I did
> not try the OBI with less RAM. The text in that page is brief, and I
> think it should state the limit for each installer. I expect that the
> limits will be the same or slightly higher with Trusty.
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
> 2014-03-14 21:19, Phill Whiteside skrev:
> > Hi Nio,
> >
> > can you ensure that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System_Requirements
> > is up to date.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Phill.
> >
> >
> > On 10 March 2014 01:46, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
> > <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi again!
> >
> > A couple of friends at the Ubuntu Forums have helped us find the low
> > limit of hardware, when Lubuntu Saucy and Trusty can run (as
> installed
> > with the 9w installer)
> >
> > See this link (posts #76-79)
> >
> >
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=4&p=12952191#post12952191
> >
> > Doug S wrote {
> >
> > Ventrical @ 166 Mhz and 80 Megabytes is not enough. Me at 200 Mhz and
> > 115 Megabytes right on the edge, and while installation was fine,
> > operationally probably not enough.
> > }
> >
> > Best regards
> > Nio
> >
> > 2014-03-08 13:38, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> > > [my text is at the end except the link]
> > >
> > > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
> > >
> > >
> > > 2014-03-08 12:24, Ali Linx skrev:
> > >>
> > >> On 03/08/2014 01:30 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
> > >>> 2014-03-07 01:53, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We want to try a new kernel for Trusty Tahr, that is developed
> by
> > >>>> PhillW. Many people help to build an Ubuntu based operating
> system
> > >>>> around it, a system that should work on most computers (maybe
> > except
> > >>>> some of those brand new ones that cannot switch off UEFI).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We have a wide variety of computers, but have not found any
> > really old
> > >>>> one without PAE capability. I'm not talking about Pentium M and
> > Celeron
> > >>>> M, I'm talking about CPUs before Pentium II:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Pentium Pro, Pentium (i586), or Intel 486 or maybe the
> > corresponding
> > >>>> generation of AMD from 1993-1997.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have an old computer from 1998, and it has a Pentium II CPU
> > at 400
> > >>>> MHz, so it must be older. Check for a clock frequency at or
> > below 200
> > >>>> MHz.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If you are a happy owner of such a jewel, please help us test
> > that the
> > >>>> non-pae kernel really works in a computer without PAE
> > capability :-)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best regards
> > >>>> Nio
> > >>>>
> > >>> Hi again,
> > >>>
> > >>> After some [private] replies offering tests on old enough
> > hardware, I
> > >>> can report the following results:
> > >>>
> > >>> You can try the installer (to find out if it boots and runs in
> > text mode
> > >>> with really low RAM). An older computer might need less RAM for
> > drivers
> > >>> than my IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> > >>>
> > >>> *The Debian installer, live in an iso file*
> > >>>
> > >>> It starts in text mode and uses 18 MB RAM when idle (and 22 MB
> in a
> > >>> newer computer with AMD Athlon dual core 4400+), but I have
> problems
> > >>> below 64 MB, set with the boot option (text is default)
> > >>>
> > >>> mem=48M
> > >>>
> > >>> in an old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> > >>>
> > >>> it cannot unpack initramfs
> > >>>
> > >>> *Ubuntu Trusty installed system with Phill's non-pae kernel*
> > >>>
> > >>> The Ubuntu Trusty kernel needs more RAM, now after some
> > >>> testing I would say at least 64 MB, but I have problems below 80
> > MB, set
> > >>> with the boot options
> > >>>
> > >>> text mem=64M
> > >>>
> > >>> in the same old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> > >>>
> > >>> When idling
> > >>>
> > >>> free -m # shows 38 MB RAM used
> > >>> htop # shows 39 MB RAM used
> > >>>
> > >>> but it seems more RAM is needed at some stage of the boot
> process.
> > >>>
> > >>> -o-
> > >>>
> > >>> The really old computers available so far have too low RAM,
> > except one,
> > >>> with a Pentium Pro at 200 Mhz. It has 128 Megabytes of memory.
> The
> > >>> computer was purchased on 1996.08.31. But it has a PAE flag and
> > should
> > >>> be PAE capable.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm starting to think, that most computers if not all, that are
> old
> > >>> enough to lack PAE capability have too low RAM anyway for our
> > new Ubuntu
> > >>> flavour non-pae kernel.
> > >>>
> > >>> The outstanding exceptions are Celeron M and Pentium M, that
> > lack the
> > >>> PAE flag, but in most cases have PAE capability.
> > >>
> > >> Further to my previous reply:
> > >>
> >
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2014-March/006876.html
> > >>
> > >> I have forgotten to mention that on this thread:
> > >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
> > >>
> > >> I manged to install - trying again to save you the trouble to go
> > through
> > >> all the posts of that long thread - Linux on such super old
> > machine (P2
> > >> with 64MB RAM and 4GB HDD) by:
> > >>
> > >> 1- Taking the HDD out - because the machine itself has nothing to
> be
> > >> used to install Linux.
> > >> 2- Plugged the HDD to another machine.
> > >> 3- Linux installed - I wasted one month for this experiment
> > because more
> > >> than 50 different systems didn't work - check the thread.
> > >> 4- Disconnected the HDD and put it back in.
> > >>
> > >> One month, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I learned a lot and proved
> > a lot
> > >> but the real result wasn't helpful for a daily use. Why? because
> > these
> > >> machines can no longer serve while we are in 2014.
> > >>
> > >> I was shocked when I managed to connect to the Wireless Network
> and
> > >> update the system. But that was the further I managed to go IIRC.
> > >>
> > >> See the thread if you wish:
> > >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
> > >>
> > >> If anyone still think I'm wrong, see the thread :)
> > >>
> > >> And first thing you do, check the date of that thread: October
> > 8th, 2010
> > >>
> > >>> Best regards
> > >>> Nio
> > >>>
> > >> Thank you!
> > >>
> > >
> > > Hi everybody :-)
> > >
> > > I see your points, I just want to explore things and find out
> myself.
> > >
> > >
> > > *. 9w - an installer for old computers
> > >
> > > So I uploaded a directory with an experimental installer and two
> > sample
> > > systems to install. The installer is based on a Debian system with
> an
> > > i486 kernel, and it can install any kind of [free] operating
> system.
> > > There are two sample systems which expand to 4 GB
> > >
> > > Lubuntu Trusty non-pae built february 23 'Ltrusty-npae-feb23.iso'
> > > Lubuntu Saucy PAE-for-Pentium-M 'LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso'
> > >
> > > 9w comes as a hybrid ISO file, that works from CD/DVD and cloned
> from
> > > USB. So it is simple to make install media for most old computers.
> > >
> > > See this link
> > >
> > > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. What computer will run at all, will be able to do some 'real
> work',
> > > etc? It might be worth the effort just for the sake of knowledge.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. What computers are the target for a non-pae Ubuntu kernel?
> > >
> > > With the new fix in Trusty, [almost all] Pentium M and Celeron M
> will
> > > work with standard 32-bit kernel and the very simple tweak to add
> the
> > > boot option 'forcepae'.
> > >
> > > If all pre-Pentium II computers are out of the question, how many
> > > computers remain? For example: Are there motherboards, that are
> > non-pae,
> > > and are not helped by fake-PAE? Other problems?
> > >
> > > I'm thinking of Jörn's reply:
> > >
> > > -------- Ursprungligt meddelande --------
> > > Ämne: Re: have you got a really old computer
> > > Datum: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 22:48:24 +0100
> > > Från: Joern <joern.schoenyan at web.de <mailto:joern.schoenyan at web.de
> >>
> > > Till: Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
> > <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>>
> > >
> > > There also some CPUs that aren't PAE capable but were likely
> shipped
> > > with enough RAM, like some VIA ones, 1 or 2 versions of Pentium M
> with
> > > 1.2 GHz and the Transmeta Crusoe.
> > >
> > > Jörn
> > > --------
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. What computers are the target for ToriOS?
> > >
> > > - Is Pentium 4 and 512 MB RAM the low limit?
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Nio
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
>
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