9w - an installer for old computers
Nio Wiklund
nio.wiklund at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 21:35:51 UTC 2014
Hi Phill,
Yes I can. I'll test with standard Lubuntu 32-bit.
I guess the priority list should be what is possible with the
1. desktop installer
2. alternate installer
and the non-conventional alternatives can be tested with standard
Lubuntu and or Lubuntu Core
3. OBI (only booted from mass storage devices, typically USB pendrive)
4. 9w (booted from CD/DVD/USB drives)
-o-
I was not able to install Lubuntu Saucy with 128 MB RAM and any of the
conventional installers. The alternate or mini iso (netboot) installer
needed at least 160 MB. I could install with the OBI with 128 MB. I did
not try the OBI with less RAM. The text in that page is brief, and I
think it should state the limit for each installer. I expect that the
limits will be the same or slightly higher with Trusty.
Best regards
Nio
2014-03-14 21:19, Phill Whiteside skrev:
> Hi Nio,
>
> can you ensure that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System_Requirements
> is up to date.
>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.
>
>
> On 10 March 2014 01:46, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
> <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi again!
>
> A couple of friends at the Ubuntu Forums have helped us find the low
> limit of hardware, when Lubuntu Saucy and Trusty can run (as installed
> with the 9w installer)
>
> See this link (posts #76-79)
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=4&p=12952191#post12952191
>
> Doug S wrote {
>
> Ventrical @ 166 Mhz and 80 Megabytes is not enough. Me at 200 Mhz and
> 115 Megabytes right on the edge, and while installation was fine,
> operationally probably not enough.
> }
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
> 2014-03-08 13:38, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> > [my text is at the end except the link]
> >
> > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
> >
> >
> > 2014-03-08 12:24, Ali Linx skrev:
> >>
> >> On 03/08/2014 01:30 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
> >>> 2014-03-07 01:53, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> We want to try a new kernel for Trusty Tahr, that is developed by
> >>>> PhillW. Many people help to build an Ubuntu based operating system
> >>>> around it, a system that should work on most computers (maybe
> except
> >>>> some of those brand new ones that cannot switch off UEFI).
> >>>>
> >>>> We have a wide variety of computers, but have not found any
> really old
> >>>> one without PAE capability. I'm not talking about Pentium M and
> Celeron
> >>>> M, I'm talking about CPUs before Pentium II:
> >>>>
> >>>> Pentium Pro, Pentium (i586), or Intel 486 or maybe the
> corresponding
> >>>> generation of AMD from 1993-1997.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have an old computer from 1998, and it has a Pentium II CPU
> at 400
> >>>> MHz, so it must be older. Check for a clock frequency at or
> below 200
> >>>> MHz.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are a happy owner of such a jewel, please help us test
> that the
> >>>> non-pae kernel really works in a computer without PAE
> capability :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> Nio
> >>>>
> >>> Hi again,
> >>>
> >>> After some [private] replies offering tests on old enough
> hardware, I
> >>> can report the following results:
> >>>
> >>> You can try the installer (to find out if it boots and runs in
> text mode
> >>> with really low RAM). An older computer might need less RAM for
> drivers
> >>> than my IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> >>>
> >>> *The Debian installer, live in an iso file*
> >>>
> >>> It starts in text mode and uses 18 MB RAM when idle (and 22 MB in a
> >>> newer computer with AMD Athlon dual core 4400+), but I have problems
> >>> below 64 MB, set with the boot option (text is default)
> >>>
> >>> mem=48M
> >>>
> >>> in an old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> >>>
> >>> it cannot unpack initramfs
> >>>
> >>> *Ubuntu Trusty installed system with Phill's non-pae kernel*
> >>>
> >>> The Ubuntu Trusty kernel needs more RAM, now after some
> >>> testing I would say at least 64 MB, but I have problems below 80
> MB, set
> >>> with the boot options
> >>>
> >>> text mem=64M
> >>>
> >>> in the same old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
> >>>
> >>> When idling
> >>>
> >>> free -m # shows 38 MB RAM used
> >>> htop # shows 39 MB RAM used
> >>>
> >>> but it seems more RAM is needed at some stage of the boot process.
> >>>
> >>> -o-
> >>>
> >>> The really old computers available so far have too low RAM,
> except one,
> >>> with a Pentium Pro at 200 Mhz. It has 128 Megabytes of memory. The
> >>> computer was purchased on 1996.08.31. But it has a PAE flag and
> should
> >>> be PAE capable.
> >>>
> >>> I'm starting to think, that most computers if not all, that are old
> >>> enough to lack PAE capability have too low RAM anyway for our
> new Ubuntu
> >>> flavour non-pae kernel.
> >>>
> >>> The outstanding exceptions are Celeron M and Pentium M, that
> lack the
> >>> PAE flag, but in most cases have PAE capability.
> >>
> >> Further to my previous reply:
> >>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2014-March/006876.html
> >>
> >> I have forgotten to mention that on this thread:
> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
> >>
> >> I manged to install - trying again to save you the trouble to go
> through
> >> all the posts of that long thread - Linux on such super old
> machine (P2
> >> with 64MB RAM and 4GB HDD) by:
> >>
> >> 1- Taking the HDD out - because the machine itself has nothing to be
> >> used to install Linux.
> >> 2- Plugged the HDD to another machine.
> >> 3- Linux installed - I wasted one month for this experiment
> because more
> >> than 50 different systems didn't work - check the thread.
> >> 4- Disconnected the HDD and put it back in.
> >>
> >> One month, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I learned a lot and proved
> a lot
> >> but the real result wasn't helpful for a daily use. Why? because
> these
> >> machines can no longer serve while we are in 2014.
> >>
> >> I was shocked when I managed to connect to the Wireless Network and
> >> update the system. But that was the further I managed to go IIRC.
> >>
> >> See the thread if you wish:
> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
> >>
> >> If anyone still think I'm wrong, see the thread :)
> >>
> >> And first thing you do, check the date of that thread: October
> 8th, 2010
> >>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> Nio
> >>>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >
> > Hi everybody :-)
> >
> > I see your points, I just want to explore things and find out myself.
> >
> >
> > *. 9w - an installer for old computers
> >
> > So I uploaded a directory with an experimental installer and two
> sample
> > systems to install. The installer is based on a Debian system with an
> > i486 kernel, and it can install any kind of [free] operating system.
> > There are two sample systems which expand to 4 GB
> >
> > Lubuntu Trusty non-pae built february 23 'Ltrusty-npae-feb23.iso'
> > Lubuntu Saucy PAE-for-Pentium-M 'LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso'
> >
> > 9w comes as a hybrid ISO file, that works from CD/DVD and cloned from
> > USB. So it is simple to make install media for most old computers.
> >
> > See this link
> >
> > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
> >
> >
> > 1. What computer will run at all, will be able to do some 'real work',
> > etc? It might be worth the effort just for the sake of knowledge.
> >
> >
> > 2. What computers are the target for a non-pae Ubuntu kernel?
> >
> > With the new fix in Trusty, [almost all] Pentium M and Celeron M will
> > work with standard 32-bit kernel and the very simple tweak to add the
> > boot option 'forcepae'.
> >
> > If all pre-Pentium II computers are out of the question, how many
> > computers remain? For example: Are there motherboards, that are
> non-pae,
> > and are not helped by fake-PAE? Other problems?
> >
> > I'm thinking of Jörn's reply:
> >
> > -------- Ursprungligt meddelande --------
> > Ämne: Re: have you got a really old computer
> > Datum: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 22:48:24 +0100
> > Från: Joern <joern.schoenyan at web.de <mailto:joern.schoenyan at web.de>>
> > Till: Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
> <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>>
> >
> > There also some CPUs that aren't PAE capable but were likely shipped
> > with enough RAM, like some VIA ones, 1 or 2 versions of Pentium M with
> > 1.2 GHz and the Transmeta Crusoe.
> >
> > Jörn
> > --------
> >
> >
> > 3. What computers are the target for ToriOS?
> >
> > - Is Pentium 4 and 512 MB RAM the low limit?
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> > Nio
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
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