Problems with KDE4 under Kubuntu Hardy

[Myriam Schweingruber]

Ok, second try... even if arguing with people who just shout around
and refuse to think is not easy...

On 01/06/2008, Steve Lamb <grey at dmiyu.org> wrote:
> Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
>
>  > KDE4 is still in heavy development, and it never has been announced to
>  > be finished yet, so please give the developers time to polish that!
>
>
>     Sorry, not only do their version numbers say otherwise so do their own
>  announcements.
>
>  http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/

Version number: what should they have used then, 3.9.9.9.9 whatever?
If you read the announcement carefully, it states: "The beginning of
the KDE 4 era", and it definitely is not a 3.x release at all, as the
underlying technology is different. I scanned through that
announcement again and it never states anywhere that this is a
finished product...
>
>     So I should, and will, be quite upset about their lack of even basic
>  usability like moving buttons on the bottom bar.

These are not just buttons, but plasma widgets (stated in the
announcement BTW), so yes, they can not be moved around (yet), but you
can easily install/remove whatever button you like if you right click
on the status bar and choose the "add widget" option.
>
>  > If you can't run KDE4 decently then you must have a problem with your
>  > installation that usually is sorted out with a clean install
>
>     Tell that to the OP.  Furthermore are you really suggesting a clean
>  install because I accidentally removed my K button and can't move it on the
>  bar?

I didn't, BTW, but from your mail it was not obvious that you didn't
try the "add widget" option, so if you say "I can't" this means for
me: "doesn't work", not "didn't try", hence I understood that your
system must be broken, as it works fine for me.

> >  Do you consider that reasonable for RELEASED software?  I don't.

Se above. Released software never means that you get a finished and
perfect product, and we do talk about Free Software here. In my
experience, every beta release in a Free Software product was better
than an "finished" proprietary product I know (Disclaimer: I did not
install or use proprietary products on a regular basis since about 8
years, so this is just from memory)
>
>  > Also, there is a change in the way computers will work in the future
>  > and how GUIs are designed, based on intense usability research, a
>  > change you can see the beginning of in KDE4.
>
>     This is usability?  Konqueror replaced with Dolphin which was pretty much
>  universally panned on every Linux list I've read.  Complete with its inability
>  to save preferences.  A kicker bar where you can't move the buttons?  Icons
>  which are resizable but no way to set them to a default size?  Or my personal
>  favorite, icons which POP up actions like a Ritalin-deprived ADD 5 year old
>  screaming, "Ooo, pick me, pick me!!  ME!!  PICK ME!!!!!!"

Konqueror was NOT replaced by Dolphin, you still can use Konqueror!
Only would you use for example Firefox to browse your desktop and use
it as a file manager? And that's what Dolphin is here for: it's a file
manager and Konqueror is a browser, period.

>     None of that is what I would call "usability".  Every piece of it is
>  distracting or flat out broken.
>
Again, usability has been tested by usability professionals who do
extensive and in depth research in that field, do you?

Sorry to say so, but your reaction is like that of someone who didn't
even try to understand the underlying changes (please, read the
announcement carefully and think) and just cries "it doesn't work as
it used to". Well no, it doesn't, but nobody ever said it would
continue to work the same way it did. That's evolution, you know, so a
little bit of "openmindness" is required :)

>  > What do you expect, that developers stay behind mayor evolution in
>  > desktop design?
>
>     When that "mayor [sic] evolution" is a huge step backwards...  YES!  When
>  the idea that removing /major/ portions of a program's functionality is
>  considered advancement I expect them to tell the marketing drones where to
>  shove their usability studies.  I don't need dumbed down programs.  I need
>  more powerful programs.

Again, you don't understand: nothing has been removed from KDE 4 as
this is new technology, and the existing KDE 3.x applications have to
be ported to that new framework! So you can hardly say that this is a
step back as it is exactly the contrary. KDE 4 is like exploring new
grounds and the work only to release the KDE 4.0 was immensely huge,
and still in progress.
>
>  > try to understand what the
>  > computers of the 21st century will look like or stay put with the "old
>  > way".
>
>     Try to understand that programs are regressing in functionality?  Why?
>
See above.
>
>  > And if you read a little info coming from the developers...
>
>     Why would I want to read what they say when it is evident that they have
>  lost it after 3.5?  They *RELEASED* this tripe which is on par with a typical
>  Microsoft release.  Apparently not only did they want to mirror Vista's
>  eyecandy they also wanted to mirror Vista's BUGINESS.

Well, that IS your problem, you refuse to read, so of course you can't
understand ... sometimes understanding needs some effort

And no, nobody in the whole KDE 4 developing team (and I know quite a
few of them in real life too) ever wanted to "copy" the Vista bling,
simply because the work on KDE 4 begun a long time before Vista was
even released in beta, So copying something you have never seen is
impossible, don't you think?

Greetings

Myriam
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