Problems with KDE4 under Kubuntu Hardy

Sun Jun 1 21:01:11 UTC 2008

Myriam Schweingruber wrote:
> Ok, second try... even if arguing with people who just shout around
> and refuse to think is not easy...

    Back at'cha.  Might I suggest that if you're going to throw out comments
like that you angage your brain first instead of repeating what others have
said.  Parroting other people is not a sign of thinking for yourself.

> On 01/06/2008, Steve Lamb <grey at dmiyu.org> wrote:
>> Myriam Schweingruber wrote:

>>  http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/

> Version number: what should they have used then, 3.9.9.9.9 whatever?

    Uhm... Yes?  You do realize that the standard practice in the Linux work
is that each number is atomic unto itself.  Major, minor, revision.  What
follows 3.5.9 (current viable KDE) is not 3.6.  It is 3.5.10.  Then 3.5.11.
Only when they add functionality which does not break backwards compatibility
does it bump to 3.6.  Major functionality that breaks backwards compatibility
is when the major number changes.

    Furthermore there is the common practice of setting the major.minor to
current major.9 for development of the next major version.  With those two
rules there is absolutely nothing preventing them from going to 3.9.203 if
that's what it took.

    Incrementing the minor frequently doesn't mean anything.  However bumping
to the next major with a .0 at the end is the universal signal that "this is a
release".  It doesn't signal "This is a beta" or "this is a release
candidate".  It signals a release.  They put out an announcement.  And while
you have scoured it for the words

> I scanned through that announcement again and it never states 
> anywhere that this is a finished product...

    ...finished product I, too, have scanned it for the words "unfinished",
"beta" or "release candidate" and found them equally lacking.  Since the
common definition of a release announcement is that the product is finished
that is how people will take it.  That goes double when they start
incrementing the version number past that point.  We're now on 4.0.3 which
means the third revision of release 4.0.

    Now, you can yell all you want at me about this but deep down you know I
am right.  Don't repeat to me where they have, on their own lists out of
wide-spread public eye that this isn't a full release.  They projected it as
such and people are treating it as such.  If they didn't want it to be treated
as such they should still be in the 3.9 series.  Finally if they knew they
weren't ready for release and pushed it out to appease a few distributions'
release cycles then that makes them no better than anyone else who knowingly
releases unfinished software.  In fact, it makes them worse since they
supposedly should know better!

> These are not just buttons, but plasma widgets (stated in the
> announcement BTW), so yes, they can not be moved around (yet), but you
> can easily install/remove whatever button you like if you right click
> on the status bar and choose the "add widget" option.

    I know that.  I said I could do that.  I also said I could not move it
back to the right side of the bar.  Kindly read my messages before responding
and reiterating what I have said.

> I didn't, BTW, but from your mail it was not obvious that you didn't
> try the "add widget" option, so if you say "I can't" this means for
> me: "doesn't work", not "didn't try", hence I understood that your
> system must be broken, as it works fine for me.

    Huh?

"Fer Pete's sake you can't even move widgets on the kicker!  I accidentally
removed my K button from the far ;eft and adding it places it at the far
right.  No movement."

    Can't move widgets.  First sentence.  I removed it and *ADDED IT*, second
sentence.  I can't get much clearer than that.  Furthermore I touched on this
issue a half month ago and got no replies then.

"    Ok.  I figured out that there are two KMenus in KDE4.  The really crappy
Vista wannabe menu and the old-style, highly useful menu.  I removed the
crappy one and went to add the good one only to have it appear on the far
left.  Try as I might I cannot find a way to get the thing to move on the bar
nor any way to add anything in any position other than the far left.  Any clues? "

> Se above. Released software never means that you get a finished and
> perfect product, and we do talk about Free Software here.

    Finished, yes.  Perfect, no.  Yes, we talk about Free Software here.  FOSS
which general blasts the proprietary software practice of releasing unfinished
software as fully-functional releases.  I cannot recall any other time a major
release number was pushed out knowingly unfinished.  That goes for massive
products like Debian on down to singleton projects like Exim or Apache.

> Konqueror was NOT replaced by Dolphin, you still can use Konqueror!
> Only would you use for example Firefox to browse your desktop and use
> it as a file manager? And that's what Dolphin is here for: it's a file
> manager and Konqueror is a browser, period.

    The file manager portion of Konq was replaced, period.  It was replaced
with a sub-par, less functional but admittedly prettier program.  Those are
irrefutable facts.

> Again, usability has been tested by usability professionals who do
> extensive and in depth research in that field, do you?

    You keep saying that but don't cite sources.  Usability according to whom?
 The neophyte?  The neophyte that most people are only for a few weeks/months
of their lives?

> Sorry to say so, but your reaction is like that of someone who didn't
> even try to understand the underlying changes (please, read the
> announcement carefully and think) and just cries "it doesn't work as
> it used to". Well no, it doesn't, but nobody ever said it would
> continue to work the same way it did. That's evolution, you know, so a
> little bit of "openmindness" is required :)

    I have an open mind.  Just not so open my brain falls out.  I didn't say
"it doesn't work as it used to."  I said, quite clearly, "it doesn't WORK".
Full stop, no qualifier.  I went on to explain that reducing functionality is
a poor direction to take.  I'm more than willing to adapt for increased
functionality.  I get quite upset when someone sells me 50% of what I had in
functionality as "better" for me.  Sorry, but most times the computer gets in
my way while doing my work because it lacks functionality.  Removing what
little functionality that makes me as productive as I have does not increase
usability, it decreases it!  Do they explain that in your studies?

> Again, you don't understand: nothing has been removed from KDE 4 as
> this is new technology, and the existing KDE 3.x applications have to
> be ported to that new framework! So you can hardly say that this is a
> step back as it is exactly the contrary. KDE 4 is like exploring new
> grounds and the work only to release the KDE 4.0 was immensely huge,
> and still in progress.

    Fine, tell me how to get the old Konq file manager back.  "Nothing" is
what you said, right?  No thing was removed.  Let me know when you figure that
out.

> Well, that IS your problem, you refuse to read, so of course you can't
> understand ... sometimes understanding needs some effort

    I refuse to read their explanation on why they released feature incomplete
software and it's my problem they released it?  Actions speak louder than
words.  Their action was to knowingly release unfinished software.  Their
words mean spit after that.

-- 
         Steve C. Lamb         | But who decides what they dream?
       PGP Key: 1FC01004       |   And dream I do...
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