kf5 5.7 utopic backports saga

Wed Mar 4 08:51:38 UTC 2015

How does this work with the Kubuntu CI ppas targetting utopic?

L.

On 4 March 2015 at 01:59, Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>>>>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > writing the status here before we forget it..
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic using the kubuntu-ninjas
>>>>>>>>>> > PPA (after some faff failing to get the kubuntu-next/staging ppa to accept
>>>>>>>>>> > them)
>>>>>>>>>> > they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had reports of them causing
>>>>>>>>>> > failed upgrades so they were deleted
>>>>>>>>>> > I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel which was breaking the upgrades
>>>>>>>>>> > Now when I try to copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains there is
>>>>>>>>>> > already that version of the package in kubuntu-ppa/next even though there is
>>>>>>>>>> > not
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > if someone has the energy for it they can bump the version numbers in the
>>>>>>>>>> > packages in kubuntu-ninjas and get them all to compile again them copy them
>>>>>>>>>> > to kubuntu-ppa/next.  But i'm mostly out of energy for it :(
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > Jonathan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for 14.10? My
>>>>>>>>>> broken system makes it appear that we are not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the KDE wiki, and
>>>>>>>>>> suggest people either use one of the ISOs for 14.10 or install Beta 1
>>>>>>>>>> Vivid.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to KDE before. Not
>>>>>>>>>> a good experience. I know that the next and next-backports are testing
>>>>>>>>>> material, so I was fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support
>>>>>>>>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into Vivid.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me.  We don't seem to have the
>>>>>>>>> energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said there won't be an upgrade
>>>>>>>>> root for 14.10 plasma5 to 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a
>>>>>>>>> tech preview and it won't get any better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have next packages?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at all common.
>>>>>>> If there are no updates, they won't be tempted to, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not be
>>>>>>> supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web
>>>>>> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If a user
>>>>>> got information on installing plasma5 from a third party they will
>>>>>> most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part because we
>>>>>> weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used our board tools
>>>>>> (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would not have been informed
>>>>>> of the support status of the PPA as the description says nothing about
>>>>>> support [1].
>>>>>> So all those users know is that they re running plasma5. At some point
>>>>>> they'll be prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom
>>>>>> and the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the
>>>>>> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get pissed off
>>>>>> because 3 million people all complain about the same thing and then we
>>>>>> will get pissed off for having blown up innocent systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next
>>>>>>> backports in 14.10 either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Less work is always fine with me ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps we need to start spreading the word in various places. Any
>>>>> suggestions about what to say, and where, and how often?
>>>>
>>>> What I think is that the upgrader probably should go "can't upgrade,
>>>> your setup is not supported" and then either point to a webpage that
>>>> explains how to best go about solving this without a reinstall, or
>>>> perhaps better yet have the installer ppa-purge next and
>>>> next-backports and then upgrade.
>>>
>>> PPA-purge was the first thing I did, but that did not leave my
>>> computer bootable. Perhaps it works, though, if the KDE login hasn't
>>> already been corrupted, or whatever-it-was that happened.
>>
>> What I imagine is slightly more complicated than that.
>> It would remove *all* packages related to the PPA [i.e. purge] which
>> will intentionally render the system broken. It would then install
>> kubuntu-desktop restoring a kdelibs4 package lineup and upgrade from
>> that. So essentially systems that have next packages installed get
>> automatically downgraded to kdelibs4 for the purpose of the upgrade.
>> This is some 99% reliable approach and for the 1% where it doesn't
>> work they would need to reinstall anyway or repair their system
>> manually as other foreign packages are interfering with the upgrade.
>>
>> Result being the user not having to reinstall.
>>
>> Problem is, I most certainly don't have time to implement this. Also
>> not really interested. So I think the cheapest way to handle this is
>> to make the upgrader warn and exit when plasma-desktop and
>> plasma-workspace are installed and point to a wiki page detailing how
>> one does what I described above manually.
>>
>> HS
>
> For now, shall I remove all advice to use next in
> https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Packages#Kubuntu which is where we
> always point people?
>
> That wiki page should be prominent in our
> https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu space, I'm thinking.
>
> Since this is a matter of policy, can the rest of the council speak up please?
>
> Valorie
>
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-- 
Loïc Grobol.