kf5 5.7 utopic backports saga

Valorie Zimmerman valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com
Wed Mar 4 00:59:36 UTC 2015

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>>>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > writing the status here before we forget it..
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic using the kubuntu-ninjas
>>>>>>>>> > PPA (after some faff failing to get the kubuntu-next/staging ppa to accept
>>>>>>>>> > them)
>>>>>>>>> > they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had reports of them causing
>>>>>>>>> > failed upgrades so they were deleted
>>>>>>>>> > I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel which was breaking the upgrades
>>>>>>>>> > Now when I try to copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains there is
>>>>>>>>> > already that version of the package in kubuntu-ppa/next even though there is
>>>>>>>>> > not
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > if someone has the energy for it they can bump the version numbers in the
>>>>>>>>> > packages in kubuntu-ninjas and get them all to compile again them copy them
>>>>>>>>> > to kubuntu-ppa/next.  But i'm mostly out of energy for it :(
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Jonathan
>>>>>>>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for 14.10? My
>>>>>>>>> broken system makes it appear that we are not.
>>>>>>>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the KDE wiki, and
>>>>>>>>> suggest people either use one of the ISOs for 14.10 or install Beta 1
>>>>>>>>> Vivid.
>>>>>>>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to KDE before. Not
>>>>>>>>> a good experience. I know that the next and next-backports are testing
>>>>>>>>> material, so I was fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support
>>>>>>>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into Vivid.
>>>>>>>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me.  We don't seem to have the
>>>>>>>> energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said there won't be an upgrade
>>>>>>>> root for 14.10 plasma5 to 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a
>>>>>>>> tech preview and it won't get any better.
>>>>>>> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have next packages?
>>>>>>> HS
>>>>>> The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at all common.
>>>>>> If there are no updates, they won't be tempted to, right?
>>>>> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their system.
>>>>>> We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not be
>>>>>> supported.
>>>>> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web
>>>>> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If a user
>>>>> got information on installing plasma5 from a third party they will
>>>>> most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part because we
>>>>> weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used our board tools
>>>>> (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would not have been informed
>>>>> of the support status of the PPA as the description says nothing about
>>>>> support [1].
>>>>> So all those users know is that they re running plasma5. At some point
>>>>> they'll be prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom
>>>>> and the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the
>>>>> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get pissed off
>>>>> because 3 million people all complain about the same thing and then we
>>>>> will get pissed off for having blown up innocent systems.
>>>>>> What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next
>>>>>> backports in 14.10 either.
>>>>> Less work is always fine with me ;)
>>>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next
>>>> Perhaps we need to start spreading the word in various places. Any
>>>> suggestions about what to say, and where, and how often?
>>> What I think is that the upgrader probably should go "can't upgrade,
>>> your setup is not supported" and then either point to a webpage that
>>> explains how to best go about solving this without a reinstall, or
>>> perhaps better yet have the installer ppa-purge next and
>>> next-backports and then upgrade.
>> PPA-purge was the first thing I did, but that did not leave my
>> computer bootable. Perhaps it works, though, if the KDE login hasn't
>> already been corrupted, or whatever-it-was that happened.
> What I imagine is slightly more complicated than that.
> It would remove *all* packages related to the PPA [i.e. purge] which
> will intentionally render the system broken. It would then install
> kubuntu-desktop restoring a kdelibs4 package lineup and upgrade from
> that. So essentially systems that have next packages installed get
> automatically downgraded to kdelibs4 for the purpose of the upgrade.
> This is some 99% reliable approach and for the 1% where it doesn't
> work they would need to reinstall anyway or repair their system
> manually as other foreign packages are interfering with the upgrade.
> Result being the user not having to reinstall.
> Problem is, I most certainly don't have time to implement this. Also
> not really interested. So I think the cheapest way to handle this is
> to make the upgrader warn and exit when plasma-desktop and
> plasma-workspace are installed and point to a wiki page detailing how
> one does what I described above manually.
> HS

For now, shall I remove all advice to use next in
https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Packages#Kubuntu which is where we
always point people?

That wiki page should be prominent in our
https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu space, I'm thinking.

Since this is a matter of policy, can the rest of the council speak up please?



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