kf5 5.7 utopic backports saga

[Harald Sitter]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
<valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
>>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > writing the status here before we forget it..
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic using the kubuntu-ninjas
>>>>>>>> > PPA (after some faff failing to get the kubuntu-next/staging ppa to accept
>>>>>>>> > them)
>>>>>>>> > they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had reports of them causing
>>>>>>>> > failed upgrades so they were deleted
>>>>>>>> > I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel which was breaking the upgrades
>>>>>>>> > Now when I try to copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains there is
>>>>>>>> > already that version of the package in kubuntu-ppa/next even though there is
>>>>>>>> > not
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > if someone has the energy for it they can bump the version numbers in the
>>>>>>>> > packages in kubuntu-ninjas and get them all to compile again them copy them
>>>>>>>> > to kubuntu-ppa/next.  But i'm mostly out of energy for it :(
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Jonathan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for 14.10? My
>>>>>>>> broken system makes it appear that we are not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the KDE wiki, and
>>>>>>>> suggest people either use one of the ISOs for 14.10 or install Beta 1
>>>>>>>> Vivid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to KDE before. Not
>>>>>>>> a good experience. I know that the next and next-backports are testing
>>>>>>>> material, so I was fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support
>>>>>>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into Vivid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me.  We don't seem to have the
>>>>>>> energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said there won't be an upgrade
>>>>>>> root for 14.10 plasma5 to 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a
>>>>>>> tech preview and it won't get any better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have next packages?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HS
>>>>>
>>>>> The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at all common.
>>>>> If there are no updates, they won't be tempted to, right?
>>>>
>>>> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their system.
>>>>
>>>>> We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not be
>>>>> supported.
>>>>
>>>> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web
>>>> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If a user
>>>> got information on installing plasma5 from a third party they will
>>>> most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part because we
>>>> weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used our board tools
>>>> (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would not have been informed
>>>> of the support status of the PPA as the description says nothing about
>>>> support [1].
>>>> So all those users know is that they re running plasma5. At some point
>>>> they'll be prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom
>>>> and the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the
>>>> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get pissed off
>>>> because 3 million people all complain about the same thing and then we
>>>> will get pissed off for having blown up innocent systems.
>>>>
>>>>> What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next
>>>>> backports in 14.10 either.
>>>>
>>>> Less work is always fine with me ;)
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next
>>>
>>> Perhaps we need to start spreading the word in various places. Any
>>> suggestions about what to say, and where, and how often?
>>
>> What I think is that the upgrader probably should go "can't upgrade,
>> your setup is not supported" and then either point to a webpage that
>> explains how to best go about solving this without a reinstall, or
>> perhaps better yet have the installer ppa-purge next and
>> next-backports and then upgrade.
>
> PPA-purge was the first thing I did, but that did not leave my
> computer bootable. Perhaps it works, though, if the KDE login hasn't
> already been corrupted, or whatever-it-was that happened.

What I imagine is slightly more complicated than that.
It would remove *all* packages related to the PPA [i.e. purge] which
will intentionally render the system broken. It would then install
kubuntu-desktop restoring a kdelibs4 package lineup and upgrade from
that. So essentially systems that have next packages installed get
automatically downgraded to kdelibs4 for the purpose of the upgrade.
This is some 99% reliable approach and for the 1% where it doesn't
work they would need to reinstall anyway or repair their system
manually as other foreign packages are interfering with the upgrade.

Result being the user not having to reinstall.

Problem is, I most certainly don't have time to implement this. Also
not really interested. So I think the cheapest way to handle this is
to make the upgrader warn and exit when plasma-desktop and
plasma-workspace are installed and point to a wiki page detailing how
one does what I described above manually.

HS