kf5 5.7 utopic backports saga

[Olivier van der Toorn]

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On 03/03/2015 09:34 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Valorie Zimmerman 
> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org>
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman 
>>> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter
>>>> <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell
>>>>> <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie
>>>>>> Zimmerman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell
>>>>>>> <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> writing the status here before we forget it..
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic
>>>>>>>> using the kubuntu-ninjas PPA (after some faff failing
>>>>>>>> to get the kubuntu-next/staging ppa to accept them) 
>>>>>>>> they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had
>>>>>>>> reports of them causing failed upgrades so they were
>>>>>>>> deleted I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel
>>>>>>>> which was breaking the upgrades Now when I try to
>>>>>>>> copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains there
>>>>>>>> is already that version of the package in
>>>>>>>> kubuntu-ppa/next even though there is not
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> if someone has the energy for it they can bump the
>>>>>>>> version numbers in the packages in kubuntu-ninjas and
>>>>>>>> get them all to compile again them copy them to
>>>>>>>> kubuntu-ppa/next.  But i'm mostly out of energy for
>>>>>>>> it :(
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for
>>>>>>> 14.10? My broken system makes it appear that we are
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the
>>>>>>> KDE wiki, and suggest people either use one of the ISOs
>>>>>>> for 14.10 or install Beta 1 Vivid.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to
>>>>>>> KDE before. Not a good experience. I know that the next
>>>>>>> and next-backports are testing material, so I was
>>>>>>> fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support 
>>>>>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into
>>>>>>> Vivid.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me.  We don't seem
>>>>>> to have the energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said
>>>>>> there won't be an upgrade root for 14.10 plasma5 to
>>>>>> 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a tech preview
>>>>>> and it won't get any better.
>>>>> 
>>>>> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have
>>>>> next packages?
>>>>> 
>>>>> HS
>>>> 
>>>> The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at
>>>> all common. If there are no updates, they won't be tempted
>>>> to, right?
>>> 
>>> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their
>>> system.
>>> 
>>>> We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not
>>>> be supported.
>>> 
>>> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web 
>>> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If
>>> a user got information on installing plasma5 from a third party
>>> they will most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part
>>> because we weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used
>>> our board tools (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would
>>> not have been informed of the support status of the PPA as the
>>> description says nothing about support [1]. So all those users
>>> know is that they re running plasma5. At some point they'll be
>>> prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom and
>>> the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the 
>>> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get
>>> pissed off because 3 million people all complain about the same
>>> thing and then we will get pissed off for having blown up
>>> innocent systems.
>>> 
>>>> What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next 
>>>> backports in 14.10 either.
>>> 
>>> Less work is always fine with me ;)
>>> 
>>> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next
>> 
>> Perhaps we need to start spreading the word in various places.
>> Any suggestions about what to say, and where, and how often?
> 
> What I think is that the upgrader probably should go "can't
> upgrade, your setup is not supported" and then either point to a
> webpage that explains how to best go about solving this without a
> reinstall, or perhaps better yet have the installer ppa-purge next
> and next-backports and then upgrade.
> 

I like the second option. Though it would be nice to prompt the user
that those PPA's are going to be removed.

It would also be nice to spread this among #kubuntu on IRC. I suppose
there are a few who hang around there and give support but are not on
this mailing list.

Just my two cents,
- -O.I. van der Toorn.
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