kf5 5.7 utopic backports saga

[Clay Weber]

On Tuesday, March 03, 2015 09:21:02 AM Harald Sitter wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
> 
> <valorie.zimmerman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Harald Sitter <sitter at kde.org> wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 12:13:37AM -0800, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Jonathan Riddell <jr at jriddell.org> 
wrote:
> >>>> > writing the status here before we forget it..
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > scarlett kindy did the backports of kf5 into utopic using the
> >>>> > kubuntu-ninjas PPA (after some faff failing to get the
> >>>> > kubuntu-next/staging ppa to accept them)
> >>>> > they were copied to kubuntu-ppa/next but then we had reports of them
> >>>> > causing failed upgrades so they were deleted
> >>>> > I tidied up the backport of kglobalaccel which was breaking the
> >>>> > upgrades
> >>>> > Now when I try to copy them over to kubuntu-ppa/next it complains
> >>>> > there is
> >>>> > already that version of the package in kubuntu-ppa/next even though
> >>>> > there is not
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > if someone has the energy for it they can bump the version numbers in
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > packages in kubuntu-ninjas and get them all to compile again them
> >>>> > copy them
> >>>> > to kubuntu-ppa/next.  But i'm mostly out of energy for it :(
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Jonathan
> >>>> 
> >>>> Are we actually supporting next and next-backports for 14.10? My
> >>>> broken system makes it appear that we are not.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I suggest that we remove the notice about those in the KDE wiki, and
> >>>> suggest people either use one of the ISOs for 14.10 or install Beta 1
> >>>> Vivid.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I've never had an upgrade leave me unable to login to KDE before. Not
> >>>> a good experience. I know that the next and next-backports are testing
> >>>> material, so I was fairly warned. But we've run out of time to support
> >>>> them, so let's cut our losses and put our energy into Vivid.
> >>> 
> >>> This sounds like a realistic idea to me.  We don't seem to have the
> >>> energy needed for a kf5 backport, we've said there won't be an upgrade
> >>> root for 14.10 plasma5 to 15.04, so we'd be perfectly ok it's just a
> >>> tech preview and it won't get any better.
> >> 
> >> how does one prevent the user from upgrading if they have next packages?
> >> 
> >> HS
> > 
> > The user will be unable to upgrade, if my experience is at all common.
> > If there are no updates, they won't be tempted to, right?
> 
> They will be able to upgrade to 15.04. It just will break their system.
> 
> > We warned next users long ago that upgrade to 15.04 would not be
> > supported.
> 
> That's my point. We didn't. We warned people who read our web
> resources (website, wiki wherever we put that information). If a user
> got information on installing plasma5 from a third party they will
> most certainly not have gotten this warning (in part because we
> weren't pushing it a lot). In fact even if they used our board tools
> (add-apt-repository) to add the PPA they would not have been informed
> of the support status of the PPA as the description says nothing about
> support [1].
> So all those users know is that they re running plasma5. At some point
> they'll be prompted to upgrade to 15.04 and then things will go boom
> and the users will get pissed off and complain somewhere about the
> shitty upgrade and then whoever they complained to will get pissed off
> because 3 million people all complain about the same thing and then we
> will get pissed off for having blown up innocent systems.

Alas, as a lark I upgraded my 14.10 box with next and the ci-weekly ppa (to 
fix a broken plasma on this non-critical system), and am happily cruising 
along in Vivid with zero problems. I doubt that I would recommend such a path 
without actual testing, however.

>From an overall lack of moaning and teeth-gnashing from forums and social 
media, I wonder how many 14.10/Plasma 5 users there actually are for whom an 
upgrade is critical over a fresh install. 

I agree that the PPAs need to be contain more explicit warnings in the 
descriptions, but you cannot control what those third party copypasta articles 
produce. At least a prominent disclaimer would be visible to us users when we 
(don't) read the output of add-apt-repository.



> 
> > What I'm advocating is no more upgrades in next or next
> > backports in 14.10 either.
> 
> Less work is always fine with me ;)
> 
> [1] https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next

-- 
Clay Weber