What's the future of Juju?

Thu Mar 26 19:14:14 UTC 2015

I second Nate's statement!

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Nate Finch <nate.finch at canonical.com>
wrote:

> I wanted to specifically thank you for pointing out the bugs that affect
> you. It's a huge help in prioritizing what we work on.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Merlijn Sebrechts <
> merlijn.sebrechts at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your answer! I didn't know Windows and Centos support was
>> coming so soon, great to know!
>>
>> The lacking documentation is the biggest issue to me. The charm-helpers
>> documentation is outdated in a lot of places and that makes it seem as it
>> isn't being actively maintained anymore. Ofcourse, this is a side-effect of
>> a rapidly expanding product...
>> The charm-helpers documentation also lacks some good examples and
>> "guidelines". Things like "What's the best way to create templates, What's
>> the easiest way to get relation data, ..". The documentation shows you how
>> to do it in bash, but is really lacking for python. I had a really hard
>> time trying to decipher how the services framework works exactly. Then
>> again, this is probably also partly due to the fact that I'm still learning
>> my way around python.
>>
>>
>> As for the bugs. I submitted/"affects me" a few:
>> Critical:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-deployer/+bug/1434458
>>
>> Medium:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charm-tools/+bug/1433035
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1415176
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1429790
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1316174
>>
>> Feature request:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1432331
>>
>> The saltstack charm-helpers integration also has few problems. I just
>> gave up on it and wrote the install hooks in python.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-03-25 21:32 GMT+01:00 Nate Finch <nate.finch at canonical.com>:
>>
>>> I'm a core dev on Juju, I can answer some, but not all of these
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> First off, as far as long term commitment for Juju - Juju is a huge part
>>> of Canonical's long term strategy... right up there with the Ubuntu Phone
>>> and Ubuntu itself.  The Juju team has been expanding hugely in the last
>>> couple years... I forget exactly the numbers we're at now, but it's an
>>> order of magnitude more people working on Juju than there were just a
>>> couple years ago.
>>>
>>> Juju is used *extensively* internally at Canonical.  We have a mandate
>>> that all internal services be deployed via Juju.
>>>
>>> As far as supporting other operating systems, we actually do support
>>> Windows, right now (though it can be a little tricky to set up, and
>>> generally only works on private clouds, due to licensing restrictions on
>>> distributing Windows images).  See here:
>>> http://www.cloudbase.it/windows-with-juju-and-maas/   (Cloudbase
>>> partnered with us to get Juju working with Windows)
>>>
>>> Cloudbase is also currently tackling CentOS support.  It currently works
>>> and is just being cleaned up, it should be available for testing in a few
>>> weeks.
>>>
>>> The number of features that have landed in the last year is tremendous -
>>> high availability, networking, storage, major improvements in the GUI,
>>> support for more clouds (Google Cloud Compute support is coming out with
>>> 1.23, which is due any day now), Windows support, backup and restore....
>>>
>>> As for bugs, there are bugs in every product, especially new and rapidly
>>> expanding products, like Juju.  If there are particular bugs that concern
>>> you, we'd be happy to look into them.  We try to make sure that we fix
>>> anything that is a regression or would majorly hinder usage.... we do use
>>> this internally after all, so believe me, we hear about it when things
>>> aren't working well! :)
>>>
>>> I'm sorry you find the documentation lacking. We have been putting
>>> effort into that recently.  I, personally, am a big fan of extensive
>>> documentation, and I know our documentation is not nearly as extensive as
>>> it could be.
>>>
>>> I can't personally talk about big companies using Juju... I know we have
>>> several very large companies doing very large installations, but I don't
>>> think anything is public about that.  Hopefully someone else can bring up a
>>> list of people using Juju.
>>>
>>> Hope that answers at least some of your questions.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Merlijn Sebrechts <
>>> merlijn.sebrechts at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in what the future of Juju is. From the small experience
>>>> I've had with it, it seems like a product with a lot of potential. It fills
>>>> a gap in our project that no other technology can fill. Its biggest
>>>> strength is how relations between services are managed. This is something
>>>> that, to my knowledge, does not exist in any tool today. It enables a very
>>>> modular approach and solves a lot of problems we would have with other
>>>> tools.
>>>>
>>>> However, I've also seen some things that worry me. Even after three
>>>> years, there are still a lot of bugs in the project. The documentation is
>>>> lacking, especially in the parts of Juju that are the most competitive. The
>>>> community is also very small. The fact that it can still only manage Ubuntu
>>>> servers worries me too. I could go more into detail here, but I don't think
>>>> it is relevant to this question.
>>>>
>>>> I'm considering starting a big long-term project on top of Juju. The
>>>> project would be very dependent on Juju, so I don't want to do this if
>>>> there is a chance that Juju will be abandoned in 5 years...
>>>>
>>>> What can you tell me about the future of Juju? Things I'm interested in:
>>>>
>>>> - Big companies building services on top of Juju
>>>>
>>>> - Statements of long-term commitment from Canonical
>>>>
>>>> - Usage statistics
>>>>
>>>> - Statements of commitment to support other distro's
>>>>
>>>> - .. or else, signs that Juju doesn't have a bright future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>

-- 
Alexis Bruemmer
Juju Core Manager, Canonical Ltd.
(503) 686-5018
alexis.bruemmer at canonical.com
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