Ideas for the Xubuntu desktop (Was: [TEAM] Gathering "testimonials" for marketing purposes)

Pasi Lallinaho pasi at
Tue Aug 23 09:05:05 UTC 2016

Hello Mark,

again, comments inline.

On 2016-08-23 03:21, Mark F wrote:
> """ This means if enough people want change (and are there to do the 
> tasks needed), then it's likely to happen as well. """
> I guess what I'm trying to imply is that there are (apparently) enough 
> people when you count all those using different Xfce implementations.

I was referring to change within the scope of Xubuntu.

In other words, if we want change in Xubuntu, there needs to be enough 
people wanting the change and the assignees for the tasks within the 
Xubuntu community.

> *snip*
> I had already been thinking about this. The topic about soliciting 
> user feedback ("testimonials," almost a religious experience) for the 
> purpose of advocacy ("marketing") seemed to invite these thoughts. 
> Does Xubuntu really have to be "pure?" Couldn't it be more things to 
> more people (especially if a majority are heading to Mint?).

I can't talk for others here, but personally I think that Xubuntu should 
decide on one set of defaults and stick with it – if that's what you 
mean by "being pure".

This allows the Xubuntu team focus exactly on what they are doing, and 
do it well.

> Soliciting "testimonials" and having a goal to grow the userbase is an 
> act of pragmatics (outreach). I'm just asking why not start from the 
> beginning and ask how those non-Xubuntu users were lost. Accomodate 
> them (especially if it's just about democracy and catering to the 
> largest common denominator).

We have no data on the size of the group of people who have decided not 
to use Xubuntu – in this case because of the desktop ideology. 
Accommodating to that group would be a gamble, and it would mean that we 
would likely disappoint a portion of our current users and stopping 
doing what we are passionate about.

I can see how this can make sense if your living depends on successful 
marketing and the market share. Here, however, it's all still going to 
be the same voluntary work even with a larger audience.

> I appreciate having the opportunity to air my thoughts about it. I get 
> the impression that it's not welcome (much, subject-line changes so 
> it's not related to the original point I was replying to, etc.).

The discussion is still welcome.

The reason I changed the topic was that your first mail was more related 
to new ideas on the desktop than gathering the testimonials, which we 
were discussing on the original thread. Changing the thread subject also 
makes this discussion more findable in the archive.

> That's ok. I respect the group's wishes and will let it go. Sometimes 
> it's good to think about things from a fresh perspective. It's easy to 
> get locked into an us vs. them mentality, "no need to try to attract 
> those people... we need more people like us." Hopefully my 
> contribution might cause some of that to be re-thought.

I think you are misunderstanding the mentality; I've never said we have 
shouldn't try to attract those people. What I'm saying is that I don't 
think we should go to extremities like completely changing how the 
desktop is built to try to attract them.

I should probably also note that I don't consider MintX (and other Xfce 
distributions – or other LInux distributions) our "competitors" in the 
traditional sense of the word.

If MintX works better for you, then you should use it. If Xubuntu works 
better for you, great! If neither is suitable for you out of the box, 
then feel free to pick either one (or a third alternative) and modify it 
to your liking. Don't like Xfce? The better use another desktop 
environment than continue struggling.

That is to say, In my opinion, all Linux users are a win for Xubuntu.


Pasi Lallinaho (knome)       ›
Leader of Shimmer Project    ›
Xubuntu Website Lead         ›

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